Boost Creep
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This is a discussion on Boost Creep within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Im getting a catless downpipe next week along with the Torqued Performance stage 2 map. I heard that with a ...

  1. #1
    Registered User anpato's Avatar
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    Boost Creep

    Im getting a catless downpipe next week along with the Torqued Performance stage 2 map. I heard that with a catless downpipe you get boost creep. I own a 2013 WRX and I was wondering if anyone knew how to stop it or control it. Thanks!
    2013 SWP WRX Sedan
    Hillside, NJ
    Invidia Catless Downpipe, Custom Short Ram Intake, Self Tuned Using ECU Flash, Romraider and Tactrix

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    Registered User cflip2x's Avatar
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    Boost controller and maybe External wastgate ?
    2012 WRB 4DR | SPT Exhaust | Short Throw | Rally Armour | WC Lathe Werks Custom TI Knob | Kartboy Bushings | Stoptech Brake Lines | JBK Elements DRL | STI HID Retrofit | XB LED Angel Eyes | GrimmSpeed Lightweight Crank Pulley

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Some cars have it, some don't. You won't know until you install the part.
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    Registered User anpato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Some cars have it, some don't. You won't know until you install the part.
    Yeah someone mentioned an external waste gate, but im hoping to avoid anything too expensive.
    2013 SWP WRX Sedan
    Hillside, NJ
    Invidia Catless Downpipe, Custom Short Ram Intake, Self Tuned Using ECU Flash, Romraider and Tactrix

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anpato
    Yeah someone mentioned an external waste gate, but im hoping to avoid anything too expensive.
    A catalyst may help prevent it (it may not). The problem is with your turbo, though. You either need to do some porting or remove the IWG (go external).
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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    Your tuner should be able to keep creep under control. I have a catless DP and custom tune by STI Mikey and no issues with boost creep. Mikey said it would not be a problem, he can control it

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    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mf645 View Post
    Your tuner should be able to keep creep under control. I have a catless DP and custom tune by STI Mikey and no issues with boost creep. Mikey said it would not be a problem, he can control it
    You can tune to help boost creep...sort of. It's not ideal.

    It's really a mechanical issue that, if it is happening, should be addressed mechanically.
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    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    A catalyst may help prevent it (it may not). The problem is with your turbo, though. You either need to do some porting or remove the IWG (go external).
    Agreed completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mf645 View Post
    Your tuner should be able to keep creep under control. I have a catless DP and custom tune by STI Mikey and no issues with boost creep. Mikey said it would not be a problem, he can control it
    This is false. You can't control it with a tune in any way shape or form. Anybody who tells you boost creep can be corrected by a tune is pulling your leg for some extra cash.

    It may be minor enough that it is still safe to run. That is not the tune controlling it - that is the mechanical properties of the system.

    On top of that, your car will most likely boost spike like a boss. It'll be near impossible to get a smooth controlled boost curve, whether you realize it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    You can tune to help boost creep...sort of. It's not ideal.

    It's really a mechanical issue that, if it is happening, should be addressed mechanically.
    The tune really does nothing with it. You just set your wgdc tables and boost control tables and try a few runs and see what happens. If the boost creep is severe, you won't be able to taper your boost down to target levels - even with zero wgdc.



    The issue everybody seems to always miss is that you can't add in "negative" wgdc. There is no way to cause your wastegate to open more than fully open. If more air is directed through the turbine than you want... and the turbine still has less resistance than the wastegate... you will continue to control boost despite what your tune says. Or Johnny's tune. Or Beth's tune. It just depends on whether the majority of the air prefers to go through the turbine as opposed to the wastegate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

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    Registered User anpato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    Agreed completely.



    This is false. You can't control it with a tune in any way shape or form. Anybody who tells you boost creep can be corrected by a tune is pulling your leg for some extra cash.

    It may be minor enough that it is still safe to run. That is not the tune controlling it - that is the mechanical properties of the system.

    On top of that, your car will most likely boost spike like a boss. It'll be near impossible to get a smooth controlled boost curve, whether you realize it or not.




    The tune really does nothing with it. You just set your wgdc tables and boost control tables and try a few runs and see what happens. If the boost creep is severe, you won't be able to taper your boost down to target levels - even with zero wgdc.



    The issue everybody seems to always miss is that you can't add in "negative" wgdc. There is no way to cause your wastegate to open more than fully open. If more air is directed through the turbine than you want... and the turbine still has less resistance than the wastegate... you will continue to control boost despite what your tune says. Or Johnny's tune. Or Beth's tune. It just depends on whether the majority of the air prefers to go through the turbine as opposed to the wastegate.
    So I guess an External Wastegate is my only option?
    2013 SWP WRX Sedan
    Hillside, NJ
    Invidia Catless Downpipe, Custom Short Ram Intake, Self Tuned Using ECU Flash, Romraider and Tactrix

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    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anpato View Post
    So I guess an External Wastegate is my only option?
    Depends.

    If you don't get any boost creep... No worries. If you want to avoid boost creep, get a catalyst inline there.

    If it is severe, you need to increase your wastegate size. You can do this with an EWG (the route I took - gives better boost control anyhow), porting the stocker out (touchy, be careful), or getting a turbo with a more reasonably sized internal wastegate (more ponies at least)

    If it isn't severe, you may not need to fix it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

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    Registered User anpato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    Depends.

    If you don't get any boost creep... No worries. If you want to avoid boost creep, get a catalyst inline there.

    If it is severe, you need to increase your wastegate size. You can do this with an EWG (the route I took - gives better boost control anyhow), porting the stocker out (touchy, be careful), or getting a turbo with a more reasonably sized internal wastegate (more ponies at least)

    If it isn't severe, you may not need to fix it.
    I was eventually gonna get a Blouch 20g, but due to lack of funds Im stuck with the stock turbo atleast till the summer. My only worry is blowing S*** up.
    2013 SWP WRX Sedan
    Hillside, NJ
    Invidia Catless Downpipe, Custom Short Ram Intake, Self Tuned Using ECU Flash, Romraider and Tactrix

  13. #12
    Registered User anpato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mf645 View Post
    Your tuner should be able to keep creep under control. I have a catless DP and custom tune by STI Mikey and no issues with boost creep. Mikey said it would not be a problem, he can control it
    Mind sending me his user ID? I cant find him on the forum.
    2013 SWP WRX Sedan
    Hillside, NJ
    Invidia Catless Downpipe, Custom Short Ram Intake, Self Tuned Using ECU Flash, Romraider and Tactrix

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anpato
    Mind sending me his user ID? I cant find him on the forum.
    You're not following...

    This is a mechanical problem, not a tuning problem. That said, as far as I know, he's not on the forum.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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  15. #14
    Registered User anpato's Avatar
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    Yeah I know he wont fix it, ive just been looking for a good tuner. I know how to manage the boost creep now.
    2013 SWP WRX Sedan
    Hillside, NJ
    Invidia Catless Downpipe, Custom Short Ram Intake, Self Tuned Using ECU Flash, Romraider and Tactrix

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    So would a divorced catless downpipe help more in this situation vs. a bellmouth catless? Say...the new grimmspeed?

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