Car is Gut-Less until 3k.. at 1k rpm its luggs like crazyy... normal?? - Page 2
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This is a discussion on Car is Gut-Less until 3k.. at 1k rpm its luggs like crazyy... normal?? within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by Sinister rev matching all but fixes the issue I'll have to give that a try on my ...

  1. #16
    Registered User subypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    rev matching all but fixes the issue
    I'll have to give that a try on my way home today!
    2002 OBP WRX - Stage II - "Black Betty"
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  3. #17
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    well I tried rev matching the other way and it's not too much harder. I don't see the difference though between

    clutch out, down into lower gear, rev match, release clutch

    and

    clutch out, rev match, down into lower gear, release clutch

    considering when you rev match the clutch isn't engaged. can anyone shed light on that ?


    btw, rev matching does not help my problem. I got it into first around 5 mph, but it didn't feel very smooth

  4. #18
    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    I used to feel the resistance a car has to shifting into first above a stop and think it wouldn't go. Then I learned how to rev match and feel for when the car wants to go into first. It's not like downshifting into other gears. Downshifting into first, you need to pay attention to the feedback through the stick. The syncros make it more difficult than any other gear because it can easily blow up an engine or tranny if somebody does it by accident. You just need to learn the feel like Kevin/Sinister has.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    I used to feel the resistance a car has to shifting into first above a stop and think it wouldn't go. Then I learned how to rev match and feel for when the car wants to go into first. It's not like downshifting into other gears. Downshifting into first, you need to pay attention to the feedback through the stick. The syncros make it more difficult than any other gear because it can easily blow up an engine or tranny if somebody does it by accident. You just need to learn the feel like Kevin/Sinister has.
    I tried at different rpms and no go.. Is there a specific rpm that will work better than others?

  6. #20
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palam7 View Post
    I tried at different rpms and no go.. Is there a specific rpm that will work better than others?


    Yes, the exact RPM the engine will be turning after you release the clutch.. hence the term "rev matching".


    It is a little difficult to down shift into first while moving on the stock WRX transmission, but it was never really an issue for me. It wasn't the fastest shifting, but I could always get it into first if I was going 20mph or slower..
    Last edited by MainFrame; 07-21-2010 at 09:29 PM.

  7. #21
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Yeah it isn't a lockout but Sinister's car is a freak/

    Rev matching alone doesn't do much for me, it takes a proper double clutch with rev matching. I.e let the clutch out in N, rev match, then down with the clutch and into gear. Done properly you don't even need synchros.

    The difference in reving with the clutch engaged (double clutching) in N vs. normal rev matching:
    http://www1.epinions.com/auto-review...3A351631-prod4

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  8. #22
    Good news, everyone! xxxxxxxAnub1s's Avatar
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    The only "lockout" in these transmissions is the normal one for reverse, not sure where that misinformation came from.

    Mycologist is right, the only real way to help along a downshift into first is a double clutch + rev match. The single synchro for the 02-05 WRX's first gear weren't capable of handling a "normal" downshift into 1st. 06+ are much easier to do it in (I do it on a regular basis, no grind and no resistance at all as long as I'm under 20mph), thankfully.
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  9. #23
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anub1s View Post
    The only "lockout" in these transmissions is the normal one for reverse, not sure where that misinformation came from.

    Mycologist is right, the only real way to help along a downshift into first is a double clutch + rev match. The single synchro for the 02-05 WRX's first gear weren't capable of handling a "normal" downshift into 1st. 06+ are much easier to do it in (I do it on a regular basis, no grind and no resistance at all as long as I'm under 20mph), thankfully.
    The lockout thing was posted by multiple others in the past and frequently went unchallenged so it is easy for someone to pick that up and think it is correct even when they are very responsible about posting.


    I only make that shift once a day to get up my driveway or occasionally when absolutely needed in traffic.

    This is NOT me:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j-3xIZK-Bk
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  10. #24
    Good news, everyone! xxxxxxxAnub1s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    The lockout thing was posted by multiple others in the past and frequently went unchallenged so it is easy for someone to pick that up and think it is correct even when they are very responsible about posting.


    I only make that shift once a day to get up my driveway or occasionally when absolutely needed in traffic.

    This is NOT me:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j-3xIZK-Bk
    True, gotta love that spread of bad information. Kind of like an epidemic.

    I make the shift maybe once on a daily basis, usually when I'm rolling up to a stop light and it changes to green right before I come to a stop, usually doesn't happen over 10mph, but I use the **** out of it when autocrossing and the track designers deside to throw a 140+* turn in at the very end.
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  11. #25
    Sammich Makin' Pwincess wrxtreme06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anub1s View Post
    The only "lockout" in these transmissions is the normal one for reverse, not sure where that misinformation came from.
    i'm guessing this was directed towards me since im the one who said it- but to back myself up, i did use the term lockout loosely in quotation form. in my own wonderful world of grammar & punctuation this means it's not literally a lockout- but just the best term i can think of to describe what it does-- locks you out from going into gear sometimes.

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  12. #26
    Good news, everyone! xxxxxxxAnub1s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrxtreme06 View Post
    i'm guessing this was directed towards me since im the one who said it- but to back myself up, i did use the term lockout loosely in quotation form. in my own wonderful world of grammar & punctuation this means it's not literally a lockout- but just the best term i can think of to describe what it does-- locks you out from going into gear sometimes.
    Didn't really mean to direct it at anybody, more to the general populace of the thread , to be truthful I didn't even notice who wrote it.

    But I understand, I was more pointing out that it's not a safety feature though as was in your post, it's a mechanical issue. The synchro simply can't get the other gears up to speed enough to engage smoothly, so even when you're just barely moving forward in 02-05 WRX's you get a grind, were they able to, you'd be able to do it all day long without issue. The post wasn't intended to be mean or rude, merely to add info to the thread.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    Yes, the exact RPM the engine will be turning after you release the clutch.. hence the term "rev matching".


    It is a little difficult to down shift into first while moving on the stock WRX transmission, but it was never really an issue for me. It wasn't the fastest shifting, but I could always get it into first if I was going 20mph or slower..
    Ummm, I know what rev matching is. Clearly there are some of these 02 wrxs have trouble with it and others don't. I'll try the double clutch
    Last edited by Palam7; 07-22-2010 at 08:42 AM.

  14. #28
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    I'm not entirely convinced that your particular car necessarily has more trouble with it than any other car of the same year/make/model. Like I said with my 02 when it still had stock gears (and a handful of other 02-03 WRXs I have driven in the past) it would down shift into first, but it's not like I could just do it on a whim. I think with rev matching and constant/steady pressure on the gear selector you should be able to get it to slip into first gear at or below 20mph. I seriously doubt that Subaru somehow made your car different than every other WRX coming off the production line at that time.


    Hell, I was even able to get it into first while moving without even touching the clutch when my clutch was broken. The hard part was starting the car in gear.. lets just say I made sure not to park with anything in front of me.

  15. #29
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    You really have to practice rev matching... it has to be within a couple hundred RPM's of being perfect... otherwise it won't go it.
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  16. #30
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    double clutching worked just fine! thanks guys

    wasn't rev matching any higher or lower than I did last time I tried without double clutch

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