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This is a discussion on Stumped with a misfire problem within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by mycologist Kevin has a different opinion so he should be explaining the benefits of an AP shortly ...

  1. #31
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Kevin has a different opinion so he should be explaining the benefits of an AP shortly now that I posted this.



    Bingo!


    I absolutely love the accessport, and wouldn't switch to open source. Colin (wrinklechops) has open source, and after us flashing his car, and seeing what it entails... it really dissuaded me from ever contemplating opensource.

    I really like not having a computer in my car, and I really like the gauges. I use the boost gauge religiously. I've been on a dyno 3 times and it's been within 0.1 accuracy of the tuner's boost gauge every time. In addition it's nice to be able to check my IAM, my timing, etc. without a laptop.

    I like real time map switching (between my aggressive and street map - which soon will be between street and E85).

    I love how I can change my launch control in a matter of seconds. With open source colin has to reflash a map every time he wants to change the launch control RPM. On track days before I pull into the staging area, I'll sit and play with my launch control and boost gauge to determine for that day what RPM is giving me the most boost during launch control. There's no way possible that with opensource I would be able to do this as quickly and efficiently.

    It's also nice to have the check engine light reading and clearing. I've read CELs on other people's cars before with it too. My buddy's Jeep, and a friend's Toyota. When I'm in the middle of nowhere and I get a check engine light, it's much more convenient to scroll to the diagnostic's section and click read instead of pull out my laptop... boot my laptop, plug in the cable, load the program, read, and clear. it's a 5 minute process with the laptop, and a 15 second process with the accessport.

    In addition I have RaceTUNER, and I'm starting to learn how to tune myself. It's the same exact thing as using opensource tuning software (romraider).

    I can keep going for an hour on other reasons... but over all I believe that for a Newb it's the best way to go, and for someone who tracks the car, or is getting experienced, I definitely think it's the way to go.

    The only reason not to get an Accessport? You want to convert from map to maf (still haven't confirmed if this is possible with AP), you have too much power for the stock ECU (so far a 32bit ECU hasn't been maxed out to my knowledge but sensors have), or you are a cheap bastard. The reason why most go with Opensource? Cheap bastards... lol


    /rant
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  3. #32
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Just to make this a dialog,

    I guess in the multiple years I owned the V1 it came out of my closet once, that was to unmarry it. If you think flashing with RR is anything but slick you are spoiled and should try a V1.

    I don't personally have any need for launch control. When I start tracking it it won't be at a strip. Switching would be nice, but not for just a realtime map. I never really trusted that would be optimum as in the V1 not all parameters could be changed. If e85 becomes available locally I would like to use it consistently but would likely have to clear it out and load up a 93 octane base map if I travel. I don't see a need for an aggressive map vs. street map. I want all my maps to be reasonably aggressive but safe to run hard all the time if the fuel can support it.

    I've had one cel in my 6 years (knock on wood), but did have to stop to get it cleared. It actually sucked because I had been flying all day and wanted to get the 2 hr. drive from the airport done.

    I like having a normal boost gauge.

    Checking IAM & KC would be convenient, but otherwise I don't understand how the logging works with a V2. Also I don't mean $500 worth of convenient by any means (to me). How do you get it to output a spreadsheet? Seems like a laptop is involved there more likely than not. How much can you display at one time - i.e. can someone watch multiple parameters on the screen while you are making a pull with an untested map? Can you synch a wideband with it (so it logs along with other parameters in the same pull with the same time reference)? If not that last one is a deal breaker for me.
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  4. #33
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    John... I've been fighting (discussing with ) you and donkey for a while on this subject. Tomorrow when I have time, I think we should do a full on discussion into this into our own thread so it's easier to find. I'll start it sometime tomorrow and send u and donkey a visitor message so you can find it.
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  5. #34
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autofull View Post
    Hi my problem is the same cross that you suffer

    almost equal at all points my car is a WRX 2004 SW

    i need some help, my car dont have mayor modiffication almost stok
    Read the thread instead of just posting.I posted almost everything to do to.............


    Darkn3ss-The Opensource software has the "missfire fix" and ability to change map revisions while the AP does not.What ever ECU revision Cobb uses is what your stuck with.Some of those revisions contain code that neither Cobb nor Romraider have identified.I have Ecuedit and that software allows me to see the raw map.There are tons of tables that have not even been defined yet.Both EM solutions have their strong and weak points but if you are specificly trying to get rid of the missfires then I can 100% garentee Opensource will do it.
    Last edited by Donkey; 07-08-2009 at 07:03 AM.
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  6. #35
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    John... I've been fighting (discussing with ) you and donkey for a while on this subject. Tomorrow when I have time, I think we should do a full on discussion into this into our own thread so it's easier to find. I'll start it sometime tomorrow and send u and donkey a visitor message so you can find it.
    I think it would be an interesting topic. Just watch out because years of scientific debate based on empirical evidence with actual right and wrong answers has made me calloused and in that environment ego can be a serious detriment.

    These are just opinions, and I find them entertaining because intelligent people can have different but valid perspectives. Living with my wife for 16 years has given me a very different opinion of what entails a fight.

    I'll lead with an analogy - I hope it is quoted because it is beer inspired:

    An AP is like Tivo.
    Last edited by mycologist; 07-09-2009 at 05:18 PM.
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  7. #36
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    meaning you're drunk? I missed the reference. Lol.

    I didn't have time today.. I'll try tmrw
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  8. #37
    Registered User Darkn3ss's Avatar
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    Update:

    After last update CEL came on (approximately 400 miles after last clearing the codes) and stayed on for another 500 some odd miles and went off whilst driving on the fway. Turned out to have been misfires on all 4 cylinders again with no symptoms.

    Timing belt, water pump, t-stat, v-belts, crank/cam seals, and all idlers and tensioners at 106,809 miles.

    CEL came on again 560 miles later on a warm startup (car was only left sitting for 2-3 minutes while I went into a store) with misfire on cylinder #1.

    I have called 3 subaru dealerships now that have all stated I do not need an ECU update. However I think they are all wrong because my car had a production date of 04/2001 which would make it one of the first produced, and the ECU revision label reads (if I am reading it correctly) that I have revision AF420.

    Just waiting for the funds to afford EM.

    Thank you all for your terrific input. especially Sinister, mycologist, and Donkey

  9. #38
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    Wow, I'm a new WRX owner with a 2002 and 98,000 miles, and also new to ClubWRX Forum.

    I have no mods, but I'm thinking about it as I know it would be a fun car to do TT in at NASA events. I am currently running my 2007 Z06 and it is costing me a bunch of money in racing tires, brake pads and rotors, not to mention $150 in gas for a week end at the track.

    Lots of good threads to a new WRX owner and also good instruction on "How to change or fix" mechanical and electical problems.

    I have used the one on changing the O2 sensor, and also used the one on changing spark plugs.

    I also bought my car used and have had misfires periodically for the 7,000 miles I have driven the car.

    I just changed the plugs, reused the boots and ingnition coils. and got it back together, started it up and no codes on anything so far. It has been a history that I have gotten misfire codes after driving the car so I will wait to see.

    I hope I don't have all the problems that you have been having Darkn3ss, but I now have some very good information on how to proceed if I do.

    Good luck, and thanks to all the people have provided feedback on this problem

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4goingfast View Post
    Wow, I'm a new WRX owner with a 2002 and 98,000 miles, and also new to ClubWRX Forum.

    I have no mods, but I'm thinking about it as I know it would be a fun car to do TT in at NASA events. I am currently running my 2007 Z06 and it is costing me a bunch of money in racing tires, brake pads and rotors, not to mention $150 in gas for a week end at the track.

    Lots of good threads to a new WRX owner and also good instruction on "How to change or fix" mechanical and electical problems.

    I have used the one on changing the O2 sensor, and also used the one on changing spark plugs.

    I also bought my car used and have had misfires periodically for the 7,000 miles I have driven the car.

    I just changed the plugs, reused the boots and ingnition coils. and got it back together, started it up and no codes on anything so far. It has been a history that I have gotten misfire codes after driving the car so I will wait to see.

    I hope I don't have all the problems that you have been having Darkn3ss, but I now have some very good information on how to proceed if I do.

    Good luck, and thanks to all the people have provided feedback on this problem
    Welcome! a Z06.. I'm jealous :P
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  11. #40
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Fixing missfires can be as easy as checking a box.......
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  12. #41
    Registered User Darkn3ss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
    Fixing missfires can be as easy as checking a box.......
    I've downloaded romraider, all the def's and some of the ROM's from scoobypedia and just been messing with them in romraider to get a feel for it and I have checked out this feature but it seems almost too simple. If you are flat out turning off the ability of your car to throw a misfire code what if a serious misfire happens? Aren't you going to destroy your car if it doesn't alert you in some fashion?

  13. #42
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkn3ss View Post
    If you are flat out turning off the ability of your car to throw a misfire code what if a serious misfire happens? Aren't you going to destroy your car if it doesn't alert you in some fashion?
    Never heard of a "serious misfire".I have heard of knock or detonation which will show as a flashing cell,the IAM dropping and the car possibly going into limp mode to protect itself.Misfires don't blow up your car,detonation/knock does.At the moment can you even tell if you are having a misfire or not?I mean whats the benefit of not turning off the DTC's if you can't even tell if there is a problem or not?
    Last edited by Donkey; 07-17-2009 at 05:33 PM.
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  14. #43
    Registered User Darkn3ss's Avatar
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    good point. when the "misfires" occur there has never been any symptom aside from the light coming on. what double sucks is that now I must fix my a/c before I invest in EM...open source is looking more desireable atm.

  15. #44
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    I didn't have any symptons either. I changed the plugs, used the old boots and the ignition coils.

    Fired it up, ran all the dignostics that I could, all came up clean.

    The next day I drove it to go work out and the check engine light came on. When I got home, all four cylinders recorded a misfire.

    Is there areally a problem that is causing all these misfires that people are having, or is there something wrong with the sensor that detects them.

    My next action is going to be to take the car into the dealer and see if I can get the ECU updated.

    Will see what happens.

  16. #45
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4goingfast View Post

    Is there areally a problem that is causing all these misfires that people are having, or is there something wrong with the sensor that detects them.
    It has to do with the ECU and the way it interpenetrates a missfire.Other than that every bit of info on misfire problems has been posted in this thread.
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