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This is a discussion on What oil filter and what oil? FINAL within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by Not-EWRX So something like a 5w-40 should be used when it gets really hot. right? I know ...

  1. #31
    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
    So something like a 5w-40 should be used when it gets really hot. right? I know they say that you want to thicken it up if your car is seeing a 100* + for extended periods.
    That's not necessary. The 5w-30 is just fine. In fact, it may be worse to run a heavier oil because 1) it may be too thick to correctly lubricate the engine at startup and 2) heavier oils increase friction in the engine. A 30 weight flows just fine at 100*.
    Scott
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  3. #32
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    You wouldn't want to run a 0w-40 or something that's that much off from the recommended weight.
    Not true.A recommendation is exactly what it is,a recommendation.The manufactures recommend oil based on what will give you the best gas milage,not on what will give you the best performance.You purchase oil depending on your eviorment,mileage and driving style/purpose.
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  4. #33
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    That's not necessary. The 5w-30 is just fine. In fact, it may be worse to run a heavier oil because 1) it may be too thick to correctly lubricate the engine at startup and 2) heavier oils increase friction in the engine. A 30 weight flows just fine at 100*.
    A 5w-30 and a 5w-40 flow the same at startup because at start up they are both a 5W weight oil.
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  5. #34
    Registered User Timdog1650's Avatar
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    I understand that mobil1 is a superior product, but here's my $.02 based solely on observation and superstition. I run Castrol GTX 5w30 natural oil in the winter, 10w30 in the summer. I am RELIGIOUS about oil changes at 3k miles, use the OEM filter (small one), and monitor both oil quantity and clarity (through the observation ports in the dipstick). If I have been beating on the car on hot days, driving short spurts where the oil never gets to temp (grocery store and back,etc), or otherwise suspect that my oil life may be compromised, I make sure I check the color and clarity to see if it is cooked to death. If I can't see through the oil pretty well, I'll usually change it. That being said, I have noticed that at 3k miles my oil looks like it's ready to go, and that's with a good conservative mix of commuting and spirited driving. I just sent out an oil analysis on Tuesday to Blackstone, I'll update this post with what they say.

    Something else to mention, give your oil a chance to break in after changing it. I usually stay off boost and below 4k rpm until I have about 50 miles on the car, or a total of about 1.5 hours of driving. Not sure of the logic here, but it's something I heard once from some guy who knew something, blah blah blah.

    It's frightening to read all the posts about this blown engine and that spun bearing, etc, but keep in mind that when engines go boom it is VERY RARELY because you used the WRONG oil, but rather the owner did not maintain it properly or another component in the lubrication system failed (oil pickup, oil pump, leaking system, etc).

    FWIW I used to put 20w50 in my 93 RX7 and a splash of 0w20 in the gas tank now and again when I could find it, just for good measure. That thing literally had ports that injected oil into the combustion chamber on each stroke, had to monitor the oil RELIGIOUSLY, and it still ended up dying. The lubrication system in that car was RIDICULOUS, designed by a crazy person.

    ~Tim

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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    There is NOTHING that I've seen that says you should not use Syn. oils in Subaru's (for any year). The only oil TSB that I've seen indicated that oil change intervals should be at 3,xxx for all TURBO motors instead of the 7k "idea conditions" interval that the owners manual states.

    Here is another oil related TSB FYI -
    http://www.boostplanet.com/subaruoilstarvation.htm
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Here is another oil related TSB FYI -
    http://www.boostplanet.com/subaruoilstarvation.htm
    Yeah I've seen that one....if I recall there is evidence that they have used the AVCS screen on models as late as 06.
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    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
    Not true.A recommendation is exactly what it is,a recommendation.The manufactures recommend oil based on what will give you the best gas milage,not on what will give you the best performance.You purchase oil depending on your eviorment,mileage and driving style/purpose.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree. You should follow recommendations because that is what the car is designed for. The oil channels, oil pump, etc are designed with a certain weight of oil in mind. Using a different weight oil could result in inadequate delivery of oil to the necessary parts of the engine. Here's another example: 93 octane gas is recommended in my car. Sure, I could use 87, but the ECU will have to retard ignition to prevent damage to the engine. So you can do whatever you like, but I'm going to do what the manufacturer recommends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
    A 5w-30 and a 5w-40 flow the same at startup because at start up they are both a 5W weight oil.
    That is only true at 0* Celsius. At other temperatures, they have different weights. See above where I describe what the numbers mean.
    Scott
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  9. #38
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    Sorry, but I have to disagree. You should follow recommendations because that is what the car is designed for. The oil channels, oil pump, etc are designed with a certain weight of oil in mind. Using a different weight oil could result in inadequate delivery of oil to the necessary parts of the engine. Here's another example: 93 octane gas is recommended in my car. Sure, I could use 87, but the ECU will have to retard ignition to prevent damage to the engine. So you can do whatever you like, but I'm going to do what the manufacturer recommends.

    That is only true at 0* Celsius. At other temperatures, they have different weights. See above where I describe what the numbers mean.
    Also politely disagreeing -
    Subaru recommends a range of weights, depending on conditions. How could this imply that the engine is designed for a single weight?

    Also, note that you are greatly exceeding the change interval that is recommended, based on a Porsche recommendation. Most would at least recommend an analysis if you are going to try that long of an interval, but you are implying that it is fine regardless of any other factors (e.g. FI).
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Also politely disagreeing -
    Subaru recommends a range of weights, depending on conditions. How could this imply that the engine is designed for a single weight?
    Sorry if I came across as suggesting that only one weight is suitable. I was merely trying to say to use what is recommended.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Also, note that you are greatly exceeding the change interval that is recommended, based on a Porsche recommendation. Most would at least recommend an analysis if you are going to try that long of an interval, but you are implying that it is fine regardless of any other factors (e.g. FI).
    I'm not basing my change interval on the Porsche recommendation. The Subaru factory recommended change interval is based on conventional oil and a factory filter. If you use better oil and a superior filter, you can extend your change intervals. If I were to use conventional oil in my Porsche, I wouldn't go the recommended change interval. I would change it much sooner because I would be using an inferior oil.
    Scott
    Past Subies - '11 STI Limited stage 1+ and '04 STi stage 2+
    '13 Wrangler Rubicon - custom front bumper w/12k lb winch & off-road lights, skid plates, diff guards, etc.
    '04 Porsche 911 Turbo GT2 clone 600 HP/TQ
    '77 F-150 heavily modded for off-roading

  11. #40
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Couple comments:

    Oil change interval: A typical Porsche sump is much larger than a typical Subaru sump. For example, my Subaru sump holds a little less than 5L, whereas there are Porsche sumps that hold 10L. The larger the sump, the more likely an extended oil drain interval will be just fine. Consider large commercial vehicles that run millions of km; their sumps are huge and they do analysis simply to save money, since the analysis fee is nothing compared to the cost of changing so much oil. That said, even with my 5L sump the only reason I don't run M1 0W-40 out beyond 5,000 miles is that 5,000 is an easy number to remember -- I could easily go to 8 or 10K on the stuff (and I might go 10K since 10 is also easy to remember; I'd just not do 8, 16, 24, and so on).

    Viscosity recommendations: Subaru recommends oils ranging from a 5W-30 to a 10W-50 and 20W-50 in my manual. They do not list things like a 15W-50 by name, but that would be fine (M1 makes one). They also do not list any 0W by name, but I see absolutely no reason why there would be a problem. Also keep in mind that the same motor is run on very different fluids in different places. The popular oil for the EJ205 in the US is 5W-30, with my 0W-40 being a bit of a minor trend in comparison. However, the same motor in the EU is run usually on 10W-60 (sixty; no typo). It's the same motor. The viscosity ranges listed are designed with regulations (fuel economy, for example), marketing, warranty costs, and availability in mind.

    Summary: Under warranty, do exactly as SOA says. Out of warranty, it's your motor, have fun. I'd look for something ACEA A3, but that's just me.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 04-03-2008 at 12:48 PM.
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  12. #41
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    I see, I thought I might be mis-reading you.
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  13. #42
    Would Never, Ever Say Something Bad About an Admin's Mom SonicWagon's Avatar
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    hey guys im on my way to teh dealership for crush washer and filter, can you figure out what oil i should run while i am gone and have a final decision back within the hour so i can purchase my oil without having a panic attack.


    SDGR would you still run the 0w in colder climates like northeast ohio?
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  14. #43
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicWagon View Post
    SDGR would you still run the 0w in colder climates like northeast ohio?
    Absolutely. If I were out of warranty and on holiday in Reykjavik (January's a good time of year I hear) I'd run a 0W. If I were still under warranty I'd chose the thinnest oil listed in the book (probably a 5W).
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    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
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    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Here is another oil related TSB FYI -
    http://www.boostplanet.com/subaruoilstarvation.htm
    Thanks very much for that info. I'll be checking if that TSB was done on my car tonight!
    Scott
    Past Subies - '11 STI Limited stage 1+ and '04 STi stage 2+
    '13 Wrangler Rubicon - custom front bumper w/12k lb winch & off-road lights, skid plates, diff guards, etc.
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  16. #45
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    Thanks very much for that info. I'll be checking if that TSB was done on my car tonight!
    The TSB attached to that link is the basic reason why later model cars should not extend oil change intervals. It's a disappointing measure for SOA to take IMO, and every time I think of how they weaseled their way to make more cash as a reward for their mistake it makes me a little upset. Bah!

    As an aside: Does anyone know of a larger sump for the Subaru? This is important and I've asked at least four times over the years, so I'll shout: WHERE CAN I GET A LARGE CAPACITY SUMP? I'd love to have a 6L or even 8L if it can somehow be made to fit under there. Thanks!
    WRX Info Links, Courtesy TheJ
    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

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