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>>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.)

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
>>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.)

UPDATE:

To start off, a link to " MEMBER TESTIMONIALS (on page 2 of this thread)" where there are tons of testimonials and lots to read.

What I ended up running and install pics. >>>>HERE on page 4<<<<


MY Blackstone analysis of my USC fluid that I replaced. >>>HERE<<<

Also started a "What fluid was your car running when it blew?" thread.

One more link to the Uncle Scotty's Cocktail Thread on Nasioc.

With that said where I started at 1-30-08:

So it is once again tranny fluid time in my car, or getting close anyways. Last time I used a synthetic version of USC or "Uncle Scottys Cocktail" I came up with. It works great, but in my quest to not leave well enough alone and brand homogeneity, I wanna try an all Amsoil formulation. Specifically, replace the Frankenstein colored Redline Lightweight shockproof with something, but we'll see where the research and findings take me.

What I am currently running:
I mixed up a batch of "Uncle Scottys Cocktail" but a full synthetic version in my 06 TR at 15k miles.

1 qt Redline lightweight shockproof
1 qt Amsoil syncromesh
2 qt Amsoil 75w90 gear oil.
What I am thinking about going with:

4 0z Amsoil slip lock
1
qt Amsoil MTG
1 qt Amsoil syncromesh
1.5 qt Amsoil 75w90 gear oil.

The bold is what I am thinking about to replace the Lightweight shockproof. They have a lower kinematic viscosity at 40 deg which should lead to improved shift at cold temps. Using all Amsoil products also guarantees (through Amsoil) that I can up the service interval considerably.



Discuss.

Here are the results:

Now at page 24 we have come to some conclusions:

* We've decided Uncle Scotty's cocktail shifts nice for a while but breaks down really fast and needs really short change intervals.
--Also don't think syncromesh needs to be in the blend
--There is also concern it may cause extra wear

* Redline Lightweight Shockproof works well in the 5MT but not the STI trans (slinger lubrication versus pump)
--Seems to work just as well straight as mixed

* Straight Severe Gear 75w90 from Amsoil is not good in cold weather, but works well when mixed with shockproof

* SD_GR still loves his Valvoline conventional 75w90

* Subaru Extra S is the greatest gear oil to put in a stock Subaru
--It works well for a long time, shifts great, but is not sold in the quart. Its sold in the 5 gal drum, but many Subi tuners and dealer have it

FWIW Redline 75w90NS is what you'd run in the 5MT, but in non-mixed form it hasn't netted near the result of the Extra-S. Don't use MT90.
 
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#177 ·
Seriously, it's only 172 posts. It shouldn't take you more than 20 mins to read.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/gener...ead-amsoil-redline-usc-etc-5.html#post2343472

What you don't seem to understand is that if one person gives you a suggestion, five more are going to chime in with a comment. Then ten more are going to chime in with there .02. Eventually you have yourself another 5 page thread with no clear answer or advice, when you could have just read through this one from the beginning.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/gener...ead-amsoil-redline-usc-etc-5.html#post2343472
 
#178 ·
ninja merge! :D

You essentially have 5 choices BTW.

USC, any GL5, Subaru Extra S, Redline LW shockproof, or "other mix."

Personally I don't like the Syncromesh fluid in the USC and my Blackstone data seems to support that. I am running a Amsoil/LW shockproof blend right now and I'm happy with it.
 
#180 ·
Here's my input:

I ran straight Castrol Syntec Synthetic Gear oil 75w-90 for 1 year without any issues whatsoever. I just replaced it with Royal Purple Max Gear 75W-90 and the tranny seems to shifting just like normal. Why am I changing? I could the parts store was out of Castrol 75W-90 and I need to get my car back on teh road so I can pass the bi-annual inspection.

Do I beat the crap outta this car? No!! I have done some spirited runs on a mountain pass but this car is driven NORMAL for the most part. The gutted Honda is for bashing!!

Oh yeah, I drive a '01 Bugeye STi.
 
#181 · (Edited)
I changed my fluid yesterday after reading through this thread, Nasioc threads, mfg websites, etc. , Ask 10 guys and you'll get at least 8 different answers ;) There are way too many theories out there and I don't mean to point a finger at anyone, but they really are theories. Many of which are a 180 from manufacturer recommendations. I question the coctail mixes, or using things like Shockproof and Amsoil SVG because it's obvious to me they are made for different applications. So I based my choice on a few facts and hopefully this is helpfull to the rest of you still grasping for a clear answer.

Fact
The owners manual recommends a 75W90 weight GL-5 lube

Fact
The owners manual states not to mix different manufacturers' lubes citing different base stocks and additives as the reasoning

Fact
Different fluids are made for different applications and they have different effects, such as slip or friction and that can effect performance and longlevity (of the components) in different ways

Fact
Redline Shockproof is made for racing applications, which have different needs (and lifespans) than street cars. The Redline website even says it's not for use in transmissions with syncros


Also the conversation 06WRX4me had with the Redline engineer (page 1, post 21) was very helpful to me (if not to him??) in relaying some of the information my failing memory holds such as some fluids are meant for friction and some are meant for slip, etc.

I used Redline 75W90NS. The facts are it's GL-5, syncro friendly, its not a coctail, it's not for race cars, and it was the recommended type/product by an actual fluid engineer. If I remember right it's what I put in my old 2003 WRX and it worked well. If the OEM stuff was both cheaper and more readily available I probably would have gone with that, but even vendor-bottled at $20/per is almost twice what the Redline is.
:)
 
#182 · (Edited)
Fact

Subaru intended the WRX to have a max total of 224hp 230 FT-lbs.

Being in the industry I understand why the manual says what it does, afterall its written by the legal staff, and why I get the canned responses I do. It is to minimize liability, plain and simple.

As for the Redline Engineer I spoke too, he definitely drank the company koolade and seemed rather incompetent. I spoke with several people who had run the 75w90NS and this post, http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/2191542-post28.html, which steered me away from it. Almost every individual I talked to gave praise to it like you within the first 1k-3k miles but then reported it being horribly worse, with tons of mis shifts and frustrating grinding/never finding first resulting.

I also realize that when the Subaru 5MT was initially designed and gear tooth loading performed (same time fluid was spec'd out) the transmission was designed to handle a whooping 100HP. 224HP wasn't even a pipe dream at that point. So recognizing this whole process, I sought out to find something that would help my tranny live at its now elevated power levels of ~ 300 BHP and 360 Btq. FTR all GL5's are not created the same. As such I sought out a fluid that was designed to minimize shock loading(which is what kills gear teeth), consequently the Redline LW shockproof. One look at the specs and I knew there was no way it would flow in the cold, which is what prompted a mixture with gear oil which has a much better cold flow characteristic. Happily, it works just as well as the day I put it in (~12k miles), the tranny shifts great, MPG is high, noise is low, much better than the USC. Stay tuned for another Blackstone analysis when I swap it out.

End of the day, run what you want....its your car.
 
#183 · (Edited)
Well, I've been using Redline trans fluid in all of my cars for a decade now, and I don't have a bad word to say about them. That includes MTL, MT-90, 75W90NS, and 75W90. Personally I've never seen any degrading of quality after such a short amount of time as a few people here have said, though back in the day the word was Redline trans fluids were best changed yearly.

I did read some of the redline reviews from your link and it seems to me like some of those guys for instance had pre-existing problems, one or two didn't specify which fluid they used, etc. Overall I didn't get any kind of conclusion based on that.

You had the conversation with the Redline guy but based on what you reported, he said pretty much what their product info says so I must (sincerely) ask what he said to make you think he's just pushing product? He rec'd the fluid that most closely matches mfg spec, so unless a guy is building a seriously powerful machine which has different needs, that's what I would expect!

Bottom line is, you're right that its your car so use what you want. Many of us have different uses, but I'm guessing most of us here are strictly street drivers, maybe a bit of autocross (which may as well be called street driving) so the answer I came up with is to keep it simple and within mfg specs.
:)
 
#184 ·
I ran the MT90 in my old car and never had a problem, but then again the Subi tranny isn't your normal run-o-the-mill gear grinder. The 02 I rebuilt had redline 75w90 in it and ground like crazy and couldnt find first. It was fresh the kid bragged on it when we bought it, and drained out clean. We then swapped in valvoline dino with the same result. Swapped out for a mix and had 20,000 trouble free blissful shifting miles before the next sold to owner punk wrapped it around a tree. :sigh:

Run what you like, but IME I prefer different. I am curious to try the Extra-S and my local dealer has a bucket, but I doubt I'll keep this subi long enough to use it all.
 
#186 ·
Right now I'm running a mixture of Shockproof, Castrol Hypo C, Pennsoil Syncromesh, and Mobil 1 Synthetic gear oil.

Please allow me to explain. I am an idiot. Couple weeks ago, I changed my engine oil. While I was at it, I checked my tranny fluid (had been running the USC with excellent results) and it was a bit over the fill line. Later on I realized I checked it while it was jacked up and not level. It was, in actuality, just fine level wise.

Anyway, I blow it off. But all night long it started to nag on me. Jeez, I don't want to stress the gears with an overfill, I convinced myself into believing. So, at midnite, after tossing and turning, I hatch a brilliant plan. I'll just go down to the garage, with a small cup, and slip underneath the car. Loosen the plug a bit and just let a cupful out. Easy as pie.

Know where this is going?

I squeeze under the car, with ratchet in hand and loosen the tranny plug. Got the cup underneath just waiting. Nothing happens. I reach up and loosen the plug some more. A drop comes out. I'm like, man, how many turns does this plug need to get a small drain of fluid? So I turn it just a slight bit more.

Remember, my head is pretty much right under the plug. One hand on the plug and the other on the cup. Flashlight in my mouth.

Guess what happened? Yep, the plug flew out of my hand and the tranny fluid started to gush out (all over my head and the concrete garage floor). I'm stunned. I try desperately to stop the flow and get the plug back in. Lost about a quart and a half. So I cleaned up and dropped whatever fluid I had left in the garage (praying the whole time that my wife would not come downstairs). Some Castrol and Mobil1.

Lesson learned: Murphy is a you know what. When your done working on something, just let it go ;)

Anyway, sorry for the long story. I just picked up a drum of Subaru Extra S for a very good price. Gonna try that next now that my USC is corrupted.

On a side note, the addition of Mobil 1 did not lead to any great discovery (like penicillin or the splitting of the atom...), I wouldn't recommend it.
 
#187 ·
Before anyone runs or continues to run any blend that involves the synchromesh or any variant of Uncle Scotty's ****tail, I STRONLY encourage you to over to NASIOC and check out the latest findings. The short story is the UOAs are coming back scary and the two best Subie tranny builders in the US are talking about damage because of the ****tail.
 
#188 ·
Read it all... I don't buy it. Lot of scare tactics and tranny's that were broke in the first place. Bottomline is to do the maintenance intervals and put the fluid of your choice in there.

Redline sucks, Redline is great. USC is the cure-all, USC melted my synchros. Amsoil rules, no Mobil 1 sucks...

I guess the only lesson is to try and see...

Maybe Extra S is the holy grail... but I would never discount another members experience. Heck, only you can be happy with your shifting.
 
#189 ·
I don't think that anyone has claimed that USC makes the tranny shift worse, just that you're causing extra damage that turns into extra money once the inevitable rebuild finally comes.

When you've got Andrewtech and independent UOAs saying the same thing, it's time to listen.
 
#190 ·
Look, I respect AndrewTech to the utmost. But, if you look at how many people's tranny fail with USC (or other products) vs the Stock dino fluid, it's no contest. The stock dino loses by 15 to 1. I realize that ClubWRX and NASIOC stats are not a good base, but I just don't see the pleas coming out from owners on how USC fried their tranny.

Is Andretech reporting failed syncros caused by the USC or by mechanical failure? Are they saying that they were going to do a PPG swap, but the USC fried the rest of the tranny? Or are they seeing blown trannys looking for a rebluid that happened to have the USC to mask the mechanical problems?
 
#194 ·
OK, well swapped out the USC with Extra S. We'll see how it goes. Only had 9k miles on the ****tail (with no problems), so hopefully no ill effects on the tranny (only have 19k on the car so far). I'm sure there is some still left in there, as I was only able to get 3.25 qts of Extra S in the tranny.

Seems to shift well. Time will tell...
 
#195 ·
Well after 100 miles, Extra S is like sweet, sweet butter...

I found my new lube for business and pleasure... and I have 5 gallons of it ;)
 
#198 ·
Redline NS & Lightweight update

Part A: well put my Mix of 1.7 Q Redline NS and 2 Q of Lightweight shockproof in at about 39K and I am at almost 57K now.

Still working pretty well and getting close to the 20 K point. Dub you still having success with yours or did you switch out to another fluid?

Next up may try the Amsoil instead of the Redline NS.

How many K on your mix Jeremy?

Part B: This goes for those posting and not wanting to read the thread. Insights from this thread are as follows.

If you want ONE FLUID: Subaru extra S is your oil....either buy a 5 gallon jug at cheap cost or go to NASIOC thread that has it at 20 bucks a quart.

If you want an effective TWO FLUID mix: USE TWO Q Redline LIGHTWEIGHT shockproof.....and EITHER 1.7 Q Redline 75W90 NS OR 1.7 Q Amsoil 75W90 SVG

(Please note I am no specialist or saying use one or the other....all cars and trannys and drivers and locations are different...try it, if you dont like it try another)
 
#199 ·
How many K on your mix Jeremy?
About 15k and I am happy as a clam still. I am thinking about swapping out the amsoil mix in the spring for the straight Extra S just for the science of the whole issue and blackstone results.
 
#200 ·
Forgot to mention the status of my drain plug when I swapped the USC out...

Well, nothing major. No chunks like I've seen in other forums. Basically, a small amount of blackish-grey residue on the end of the magnetic plug. I attribute this to a mixture of sludge and fine metal particles. Just enough to cover the tip of your finger...

So that's after 9k on USC. I recall it being similiar on 10k of factory fill.
 
#204 ·
Lucas Oil

I own a 2003 WRX (stock).

I measured my gear box oil level the other day and found out that is missing some, since I was on a hurry I couldn't get Redline, which was my intention, so I ended up buying Lucas Heavy Duty 80W/90 to fill up my gear box. I haven't added it yet, since I don't use the car very much yet.

Do you guys think it will be okay adding/mixing that Lucas Quart with the oil that the box has currently?

Is not synthetic, however, is heavy duty.

Should I add it or wait and buy Redline's?
 
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#205 ·
I own a 2003 WRX (stock).

I measured my gear box oil level the other day and found out that is missing some, since I was on a hurry I couldn't get Redline, which was my intention, so I ended up buying Lucas Heavy Duty 80W/90 to fill up my gear box. I haven't added it yet, since I don't use the car very much yet.

Do you guys think it will be okay adding/mixing that Lucas Quart with the oil that the box has currently?

Is not synthetic, however, is heavy duty.

Should I add it or wait and buy Redline's?
Adding the Lucas oil won't hurt anything. Overfilling your tranny way past the top mark will. If it needs just a bit go ahead.

Also make sure you were on level ground when you discovered it was low. Even a standard driveway incline can give a false reading.
 
#206 ·
Blackstone

Hey Jeremy you working with anyone over at Blackstone with your oil analysis if you're doing it?

My tranny has the lightweight and Redline NS mix in it with just over 20 K on it. I was going to change it out and try the Amsoil SVG mix but wanted to send some of my old fluid mix in for analysis as well as a new mixed up sample of the LW NS mix for comparison.

Might make sense to work together with blackstone and combine all the data.
 
#207 ·
Hey Jeremy you working with anyone over at Blackstone with your oil analysis if you're doing it?

My tranny has the lightweight and Redline NS mix in it with just over 20 K on it. I was going to change it out and try the Amsoil SVG mix but wanted to send some of my old fluid mix in for analysis as well as a new mixed up sample of the LW NS mix for comparison.

Might make sense to work together with blackstone and combine all the data.
I haven't changed this mix out yet. I plan on it in a month or so, then I'll send it in.
 
#210 ·
i have ppg straight cut gears and i the oil on my tranny is like real light blue does anybody knows the name of the oil thanks .
How is the noise level with the ppg's? Is it something you can get used to on a daily drive?

Also, what clutch did you go with?

I think I'm going to stick with Subaru S when I get the new gears this summer.
 
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