>>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.) - Page 2
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This is a discussion on >>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.) within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I'll share my experience w/ gear oil. I've owned a WRX since 2001 (a 2002 sedan and currently a 2004 ...

  1. #16
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    I'll share my experience w/ gear oil. I've owned a WRX since 2001 (a 2002 sedan and currently a 2004 wagon). Very quickly into my first car I swapped in M1 synthetic in both the tranny/rear lsd. At first it was lovely and I patted myself on the back. Not too shortly afterward I was headed to Portland for a driving school at PIR. When we arrived in Portland (1200 miles later) I was having SERIOUS trouble downshifting. With the driving school the next day I knew I was in trouble. I had read some anecdotal evidence of Shockproof working, found a race shop and bought some lightweight Shockproof (got some funny looks in the motel parking lot w/ my car up on ramps and me in my coveralls ). Took it for a spin- butter. Track day when great, downshifting like a dream. Ran Shockproof w/ very good success until I sold the sedan and bought the wagon.

    I knew w/ the wagon M1 was not an option (and found lots and lots of evidence w/ other syns that folks weren't having good luck either). I thought about going Shockproof again, but w/ a brand new car (and it's Hulk green color-shockproof not my car ) that Shockproof would not be warranty friendly. The oe gear oil was mediocre as far as downshifting, as the weeks went by I knew I needed to swap it out. I stumbled onto Subaru Extra S (listening to the likes of Gary Sheehan of USTCC fame)- it's a dino oil, 75W90, Subaru labeled (lots of Japanese writing) and only available in 5 gallon (actually 20 liters) pails unfortunately. My experience has been very positive w/ this fluid, this is w/ dozens of arduous track days (and lots and lots of autoxing). It's nice to know that there is something that works and very warranty friendly.

    https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/p...oducts_id=1073
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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  3. #17
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Thanks BigSkyWrx. My only problem with that fluid is the quantity it's available in. 20 Liters!! I fear I would do 1-2 more fluid changes in my Subaru and be stuck with 12 Liters of fluid forever.
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    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    lightweight (not super lightweight)

    I've had several guys pm me about selling them some extra S (I haven't because it's a pain and will likely end up using it all), me thinks if you happened to have left over you could easily get rid of it. Might check your local forums, maybe a couple of local guys could go in on it together????
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  5. #19
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Do you happen to recall how long (miles or time) you kept the lightweight shockproof in the 02 gearbox with good results in donwshifting? I know you tend to change fluids more frequently than I do since your use pattern is heavier but it'd help gauge how long the good feel is maintained with the shockproof.
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  6. #20
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    someone in the other thread asked me about longevity on the extra S and can't really answer that or your question either. I got in the habit of swapping out gear oil every spring (roughly 12-15k miles)- so it lasts at least that long
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Redline

    Just got off the phone with the Redline lubrication engineer and his recommendations seem counterintuitive at best and conflicting with the info received from Amsoil.

    The Redline lubrication Engineer recommends straight 75w90NS (equivalent to Amsoil MTG) with no additives or friction modifiers. He explained that in order to have proper smooth syncro operation you must not use a friction modifier as they are "too slippery" and the syncros "need friction" to work. He explained that the 75w90 (Amsoil SVG 75w90) has too high a modifier content and will cause notchy shifting and propagate the Wrx shifting issue.

    On Redline Shockproof:

    Despite Web testimonials, the lubrication engineer said they didn't recommend the Shockproof in the Impreza for a number of reasons.

    1. Not GL5 rated--(listed as GL5 in .pdf on page 1)
    2. Freak Blue color (no joke he actually said this)
    3. Too high of a friction modifier content, too slippery for proper syncro operation.
    4. Worse cold flow characteristics than the 75w90NS.

    To me it seems his recommendations go against even my real world experience.

    I expected to get off the phone with a definite and confident direction when in reality it had the opposite effect. Frankly I felt like :bill:
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 04:25 PM.
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  8. #22
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    More Research:

    Analyzing the websites:

    Amsoil:

    From:
    https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svg.aspx

    MTG

    MTG excels in hot and cold temperature extremes that exceed the limits of conventional mineral oils. It protects against rust, keeps seals soft for long life, and is compatible with brass synchros for smooth synchromesh shift quality.
    SVG

    AMSOIL SEVERE GEAR&#174; is compatible with most limited slip differentials. If limited slip differential chatter occurs, add AMSOIL Slip-Lock™ friction modifier additive.
    Recommended for use in differentials, manual transmissions and other gear applications requiring any of the following specifications: API GL-5, MT-1,

    Applications
    AMSOIL SEVERE GEAR&#174; Synthetic EP Lubricants are excellent for severe applications, such as towing, hauling, steep hill driving, commercial use, plowing, racing, off-road use, rapid acceleration, frequent stop-and-go operation and high ambient temperatures.
    Higher horsepower, towing and hauling capabilities of modern vehicles make turbo diesel pick-ups, SUVs, vans and delivery/utility vehicles especially prone to severe service. Other severe duty vehicles include light, medium and heavy-duty trucks, buses, heavy equipment, 4X4s, tow trucks, race cars, tractors, and motorhomes.
    For product service life in differentials, consult your owner’s manual or the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) to establish the application, NORMAL or SEVERE.

    Redline:

    From: http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp

    75w90

    Our most popular gear oil, this is the preferred product in nearly all car and light truck differentials, both conventional and limited-slip. 75W90 is preferred for most racing applications. It contains friction modifier which is recommended for limited-slip units. 75W90 Gear Oil can be used in many transmissions and transaxles; however, other Red Line lubricants have better frictional properties for rapid synchronization. Exceeds API GL-5.
    75w90NS

    This GL-5-type geal oil doesn't contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials. This makes the transmission synchronizers come to equal speeds more quickly, allowing faster shifting and much easier low-temperature shifting. Can also be used in racing limited-slip differentials where weak spring design causes too much wheel spin.


    Lightweight shockproof


    ShockProof&#174; products work in a variety of differential and transmissions...-these fluids are designed wet sump or splash type lubrication.

    A unique gear oil designed to lubricate racing transmissions and transaxles which see serious loads (not recommended for most syncro-type transmissions). It has excellent low-temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold.

    Red Line Synthetic ShockProof™ Gear Oil provides
    unequalled protection for high-performance differentials
    and transmissions which are heavily loaded or which see
    shock-loading.

    Red Line ShockProof™ can be
    used in conventional, limited-slip, or locker differentials.
    Red Line ShockProof™ is designed for use in
    competition differentials and transmissions.

    Seems to support Redline engineers recommendations.

    MOBIL1:

    from: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._75W-90LS.aspx

    LS 75w90

    Mobil 1&#174; Synthetic Gear Lube LS 75W-90 is a supreme performance, synthetic, multi-purpose, SAE 75W-90 automotive gear lubricant designed to meet the highest level of performance requirements of modern passenger vehicles in all types of operating conditions, including limited slip applications, as well as delivering outstanding power transfer performance.

    Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lube LS 75W-90 contains special friction modifiers designed for limited slip-type differentials. In most applications, the addition of special LS (limited slip) additives is not required. For axles requiring the highest level of limited-slip performance, OEM specific LS additives can be added to this fluid.
    VALVOLINE:

    from:http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=58

    Synpower 75w90

    Valvoline SynPower Gear Oil is a full synthetic, thermally stable, extreme-pressure gear lubricant designed to operate and protect in both high and low extreme-temperature conditions. SynPower Gear Oil is specially recommended for limited-slip hypoid differentials.
    • Contains additives to assist in protecting gear teeth
    • Maintains excellent low temperature fluid protection down to -50&#176;F (-46&#176;C)
    • Provides outstanding thermal stability for cleanliness and longer service life
    • Contains special additives to reduce chattering in limited-slip differentials
    • Recommended for (conventional and limited slip) manual transmissions where an API GL-5 or MT-1 fluid is specified
    • Protects parts from rust and corrosion
    • Compatible with conventional gear lubricants
    Royal Purple

    from: http://www.royalpurple.com/gear-oil.html

    Maxgear


    Max-Gear is an ultra-tough automotive gear oil. It’s designed to maximize power and provide unsurpassed protection to heavily loaded gears. It makes gears run smoother, quieter, cooler and longer without overhauls.
    Max-Gear outperforms other gear oils because it combines the highest quality synthetic oils with Royal Purple’s proprietary Synslide additive technology.
    Max-Gear is recommended for use in truck, motor home / RV, and automotive front or rear differentials, manual transmissions, and lower gear units of marine engines that specify use of an API GL-5 or GL-4 fluid. All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials. No additional additives are necessary.
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 10:27 AM.
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  9. #23
    Would Never, Ever Say Something Bad About an Admin's Mom SonicWagon's Avatar
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    I read the first page and think ok Shockproof Lightweight should be perfect for my tranny, with my light duty driving. I get to second page and Redline says not for me....

    I dont care about color I have no warranty. I just want something that shifts well and is not only available by the barrel.

    This thread is great though Jeremy the results should be quite helpfull

    i am still
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    I was asking more on longevity of the transmission with the Extra S... Someone mentioned that the snychromesh eats away at the wrx's tranny, so I'm looking for something to help with good shifting and good for the tranny...

    thanks.

    I'm thinking of getting a 5 gallon bucket of the Extra S if someone is interested in going partners or buying a gallon off me let me know.

    I'm in PA
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Save space in tech thread

  11. #25
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicWagon View Post
    I read the first page and think ok Shockproof Lightweight should be perfect for my tranny, with my light duty driving. I get to second page and Redline says not for me....

    I dont care about color I have no warranty. I just want something that shifts well and is not only available by the barrel.

    This thread is great though Jeremy the results should be quite helpfull

    i am still
    Well the results of this thread are still pending more research. I happily endorse USC currently (listed in first post), but am researching all other options.

    Member Testimonials are listed in the link in the first post of this thread.

    Redline recommends straight 3.8 qts of 75w90NS.
    Amsoil recommends MTG with sliplock additive or straight SVG.

    If you switch before I do and try either of the above, please post results. Currently, I am undecided which route to go (stay USC, Amsoil or Redline)

    Quote Originally Posted by jogfrogjog View Post
    I'm thinking of getting a 5 gallon bucket of the Extra S if someone is interested in going partners or buying a gallon off me let me know.

    Where are you located?
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Save space in tech thread
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  12. #26
    Would Never, Ever Say Something Bad About an Admin's Mom SonicWagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06wrx4me View Post
    Well the results of this thread are still pending more research. I happily endorse USC currently (listed in first post), but am researching all other options.

    Member Testimonials are listed in the link in the first post of this thread.

    Redline recommends straight 3.8 qts of 75w90NS.
    Amsoil recommends MTG with sliplock additive or straight SVG.

    If you switch before I do and try either of the above, please post results. Currently, I am undecided which route to go (stay USC, Amsoil or Redline)
    I have no plan to change without a strong recommendation by some more people i think.

    i would like to change soon there is a chance i am running 77k mile old tranny and diff fluid

    i agree results are pending i was just kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by 06wrx4me View Post
    Where are you located?
    +1 i should see if anybody in ohio has a 5gal bucket already.
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 03:21 PM. Reason: save space in tech thread
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    Analyzing Syncromesh Fluid

    Lets Compare Syncromesh fluid to see if their are noticeable difference between them as they are an ingredient in the USC.

    Pennzoil

    Pennzoil&#174; Synchromesh Fluid
    Pennzoil&#174; Synchromesh Fluid is a synchromesh transmission fluid designed for certain manual transaxles and manual transmissions used by General Motors or Chrysler. Pennzoil&#174; Synchromesh Fluid is formulated with high quality paraffinic base stocks, a fluidity modifier, multifunctional performance additives, corrosion inhibitors, a foam suppressor and a shear stable viscosity index improver additive. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, excellent synchronizer performance and compatibility with yellow metals, such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions. This product will satisfactorily lubricate General Motors or Chrysler manual transaxles and transmissions from -40&#176;C to +150&#176;C.
    Benefits:
    • Exhibits excellent low temperature performance
    • Meets GM Specification 9985648 and Chrylser Specification MS-9224
    • Suitable for use in GM manual transaxles and transmissions requiring GM Part No. 12345349 or 12345577
    • Suitable for use in Chrylser transaxles and transmissions requiring Part No. 4874464
    • Excellent synchronizer performance
    • Excellent yellow metal compatibility
    Amsoil

    Synthetic Manual Synchromesh
    Transmission Fluid (MTF)
    SAE 5W-30



    PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
    AMSOIL Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) is a premium quality synthetic lubricant designed to surpass the most demanding lubrication requirements of manual transmissions and transaxles where non-extreme pressure fluids are used.
    It protects against rust, keeps seals soft for long life, and is compatible with brass synchros for smooth synchromesh shift quality.
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 04:57 PM.
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  14. #28
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    Testimonials for products in this thread

    A running tally for reviews of different combinations of NON-OE tranny fluid:

    (link to: "+ review" = positive review, "- review" = bad review, "= review" = neutral)


    Amsoil:
    + review + review
    - review

    USC:
    + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review

    Redline Gear oil only:
    - review - review - review - review - review - review - review
    = review

    MT90
    + review + review + review
    - review

    Redline shockproof:
    + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review

    Redline shockproof + gear oil:
    + review + review + review + review + review + review + review

    Royal Purple:
    + review

    Mobil 1:
    + review
    = review
    - review - review - review - review - review - review

    Syncromesh straight:
    + review + review + review + review
    - review

    Syncromesh + gear oil:

    + review + review + review + review + review + review + review + review

    Subaru Extra S:
    + review + review + review
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 02-21-2008 at 02:08 PM.
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  15. #29
    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    To add to this I have over 10k on my Redline mixture and it is still as wonderful as the day I put it in. I have absolutely zero intention of switching to something else as IMO there is simply no need. The transmission just works exactly as it should.

    I also intend on running a few SCCA ProSolo events this year and having the Shockproof in the trans should be helpful for the standing starts.
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    what mixture of redline and shock proof do you have?

    has any one tried Royal Purple's Synchromax? I"m thinking to drop a court of the royal purple I have and put in some Synchromax... supposed to be good on soft metals found in snycho trannys

    looks to be somewhat promising... I think I'll try it and see how it works out...

    http://www.royalpurple.com/manual-tr...ion-fluid.html
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 01-31-2008 at 08:10 PM. Reason: save space in tech thread

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