>>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.) - Page 13
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This is a discussion on >>Tranny Fluid Info and Experimenting Thread<< (Amsoil, Redline, USC, etc.) within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I changed my fluid yesterday after reading through this thread, Nasioc threads, mfg websites, etc. , Ask 10 guys and ...

  1. #181
    Registered User yo vanilla's Avatar
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    I changed my fluid yesterday after reading through this thread, Nasioc threads, mfg websites, etc. , Ask 10 guys and you'll get at least 8 different answers There are way too many theories out there and I don't mean to point a finger at anyone, but they really are theories. Many of which are a 180 from manufacturer recommendations. I question the coctail mixes, or using things like Shockproof and Amsoil SVG because it's obvious to me they are made for different applications. So I based my choice on a few facts and hopefully this is helpfull to the rest of you still grasping for a clear answer.

    Fact
    The owners manual recommends a 75W90 weight GL-5 lube

    Fact
    The owners manual states not to mix different manufacturers' lubes citing different base stocks and additives as the reasoning

    Fact
    Different fluids are made for different applications and they have different effects, such as slip or friction and that can effect performance and longlevity (of the components) in different ways

    Fact
    Redline Shockproof is made for racing applications, which have different needs (and lifespans) than street cars. The Redline website even says it's not for use in transmissions with syncros


    Also the conversation 06WRX4me had with the Redline engineer (page 1, post 21) was very helpful to me (if not to him??) in relaying some of the information my failing memory holds such as some fluids are meant for friction and some are meant for slip, etc.

    I used Redline 75W90NS. The facts are it's GL-5, syncro friendly, its not a coctail, it's not for race cars, and it was the recommended type/product by an actual fluid engineer. If I remember right it's what I put in my old 2003 WRX and it worked well. If the OEM stuff was both cheaper and more readily available I probably would have gone with that, but even vendor-bottled at $20/per is almost twice what the Redline is.
    Last edited by yo vanilla; 11-26-2008 at 01:45 PM.
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  3. #182
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Fact

    Subaru intended the WRX to have a max total of 224hp 230 FT-lbs.

    Being in the industry I understand why the manual says what it does, afterall its written by the legal staff, and why I get the canned responses I do. It is to minimize liability, plain and simple.

    As for the Redline Engineer I spoke too, he definitely drank the company koolade and seemed rather incompetent. I spoke with several people who had run the 75w90NS and this post, http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/2191542-post28.html, which steered me away from it. Almost every individual I talked to gave praise to it like you within the first 1k-3k miles but then reported it being horribly worse, with tons of mis shifts and frustrating grinding/never finding first resulting.

    I also realize that when the Subaru 5MT was initially designed and gear tooth loading performed (same time fluid was spec'd out) the transmission was designed to handle a whooping 100HP. 224HP wasn't even a pipe dream at that point. So recognizing this whole process, I sought out to find something that would help my tranny live at its now elevated power levels of ~ 300 BHP and 360 Btq. FTR all GL5's are not created the same. As such I sought out a fluid that was designed to minimize shock loading(which is what kills gear teeth), consequently the Redline LW shockproof. One look at the specs and I knew there was no way it would flow in the cold, which is what prompted a mixture with gear oil which has a much better cold flow characteristic. Happily, it works just as well as the day I put it in (~12k miles), the tranny shifts great, MPG is high, noise is low, much better than the USC. Stay tuned for another Blackstone analysis when I swap it out.

    End of the day, run what you want....its your car.
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 11-26-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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  4. #183
    Registered User yo vanilla's Avatar
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    Well, I've been using Redline trans fluid in all of my cars for a decade now, and I don't have a bad word to say about them. That includes MTL, MT-90, 75W90NS, and 75W90. Personally I've never seen any degrading of quality after such a short amount of time as a few people here have said, though back in the day the word was Redline trans fluids were best changed yearly.

    I did read some of the redline reviews from your link and it seems to me like some of those guys for instance had pre-existing problems, one or two didn't specify which fluid they used, etc. Overall I didn't get any kind of conclusion based on that.

    You had the conversation with the Redline guy but based on what you reported, he said pretty much what their product info says so I must (sincerely) ask what he said to make you think he's just pushing product? He rec'd the fluid that most closely matches mfg spec, so unless a guy is building a seriously powerful machine which has different needs, that's what I would expect!

    Bottom line is, you're right that its your car so use what you want. Many of us have different uses, but I'm guessing most of us here are strictly street drivers, maybe a bit of autocross (which may as well be called street driving) so the answer I came up with is to keep it simple and within mfg specs.
    Last edited by yo vanilla; 11-26-2008 at 07:01 PM.
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  5. #184
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    I ran the MT90 in my old car and never had a problem, but then again the Subi tranny isn't your normal run-o-the-mill gear grinder. The 02 I rebuilt had redline 75w90 in it and ground like crazy and couldnt find first. It was fresh the kid bragged on it when we bought it, and drained out clean. We then swapped in valvoline dino with the same result. Swapped out for a mix and had 20,000 trouble free blissful shifting miles before the next sold to owner punk wrapped it around a tree. :sigh:

    Run what you like, but IME I prefer different. I am curious to try the Extra-S and my local dealer has a bucket, but I doubt I'll keep this subi long enough to use it all.
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  6. #185
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    I found a local source (my tuner) for Subaru Extra S in 4L quantity. So sometime between now and summer I'll do a fluid swap and send Blackstone my new concoction for testing.
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  7. #186
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
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    Right now I'm running a mixture of Shockproof, Castrol Hypo C, Pennsoil Syncromesh, and Mobil 1 Synthetic gear oil.

    Please allow me to explain. I am an idiot. Couple weeks ago, I changed my engine oil. While I was at it, I checked my tranny fluid (had been running the USC with excellent results) and it was a bit over the fill line. Later on I realized I checked it while it was jacked up and not level. It was, in actuality, just fine level wise.

    Anyway, I blow it off. But all night long it started to nag on me. Jeez, I don't want to stress the gears with an overfill, I convinced myself into believing. So, at midnite, after tossing and turning, I hatch a brilliant plan. I'll just go down to the garage, with a small cup, and slip underneath the car. Loosen the plug a bit and just let a cupful out. Easy as pie.

    Know where this is going?

    I squeeze under the car, with ratchet in hand and loosen the tranny plug. Got the cup underneath just waiting. Nothing happens. I reach up and loosen the plug some more. A drop comes out. I'm like, man, how many turns does this plug need to get a small drain of fluid? So I turn it just a slight bit more.

    Remember, my head is pretty much right under the plug. One hand on the plug and the other on the cup. Flashlight in my mouth.

    Guess what happened? Yep, the plug flew out of my hand and the tranny fluid started to gush out (all over my head and the concrete garage floor). I'm stunned. I try desperately to stop the flow and get the plug back in. Lost about a quart and a half. So I cleaned up and dropped whatever fluid I had left in the garage (praying the whole time that my wife would not come downstairs). Some Castrol and Mobil1.

    Lesson learned: Murphy is a you know what. When your done working on something, just let it go

    Anyway, sorry for the long story. I just picked up a drum of Subaru Extra S for a very good price. Gonna try that next now that my USC is corrupted.

    On a side note, the addition of Mobil 1 did not lead to any great discovery (like penicillin or the splitting of the atom...), I wouldn't recommend it.
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  8. #187
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    Before anyone runs or continues to run any blend that involves the synchromesh or any variant of Uncle Scotty's ****tail, I STRONLY encourage you to over to NASIOC and check out the latest findings. The short story is the UOAs are coming back scary and the two best Subie tranny builders in the US are talking about damage because of the ****tail.

  9. #188
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by williaty View Post
    Before anyone runs or continues to run any blend that involves the synchromesh or any variant of Uncle Scotty's ****tail, I STRONLY encourage you to over to NASIOC and check out the latest findings. The short story is the UOAs are coming back scary and the two best Subie tranny builders in the US are talking about damage because of the ****tail.
    Read it all... I don't buy it. Lot of scare tactics and tranny's that were broke in the first place. Bottomline is to do the maintenance intervals and put the fluid of your choice in there.

    Redline sucks, Redline is great. USC is the cure-all, USC melted my synchros. Amsoil rules, no Mobil 1 sucks...

    I guess the only lesson is to try and see...

    Maybe Extra S is the holy grail... but I would never discount another members experience. Heck, only you can be happy with your shifting.
    06 GTO M6 Quicksilver, SLP 455 Bobcat, LS7 Clutch w/ SS line (RPM tune:373rwhp/373rwtq)
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  10. #189
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    I don't think that anyone has claimed that USC makes the tranny shift worse, just that you're causing extra damage that turns into extra money once the inevitable rebuild finally comes.

    When you've got Andrewtech and independent UOAs saying the same thing, it's time to listen.

  11. #190
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by williaty View Post
    I don't think that anyone has claimed that USC makes the tranny shift worse, just that you're causing extra damage that turns into extra money once the inevitable rebuild finally comes.

    When you've got Andrewtech and independent UOAs saying the same thing, it's time to listen.
    Look, I respect AndrewTech to the utmost. But, if you look at how many people's tranny fail with USC (or other products) vs the Stock dino fluid, it's no contest. The stock dino loses by 15 to 1. I realize that ClubWRX and NASIOC stats are not a good base, but I just don't see the pleas coming out from owners on how USC fried their tranny.

    Is Andretech reporting failed syncros caused by the USC or by mechanical failure? Are they saying that they were going to do a PPG swap, but the USC fried the rest of the tranny? Or are they seeing blown trannys looking for a rebluid that happened to have the USC to mask the mechanical problems?
    06 GTO M6 Quicksilver, SLP 455 Bobcat, LS7 Clutch w/ SS line (RPM tune:373rwhp/373rwtq)
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  12. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavia View Post
    Look, I respect AndrewTech to the utmost. But, if you look at how many people's tranny fail with USC (or other products) vs the Stock dino fluid, it's no contest. The stock dino loses by 15 to 1. I realize that ClubWRX and NASIOC stats are not a good base, but I just don't see the pleas coming out from owners on how USC fried their tranny.

    Is Andretech reporting failed syncros caused by the USC or by mechanical failure? Are they saying that they were going to do a PPG swap, but the USC fried the rest of the tranny? Or are they seeing blown trannys looking for a rebluid that happened to have the USC to mask the mechanical problems?
    No, you're misreading the situation. Andrewtech is saying that, when trannys come in, pretty much all of them have failed/worn parts X and Y. However, a tranny that ran USC will also have worn/pitted part Z, whereas the trannys using something other than USC do not exhibit any change to part Z.

    I don't think anyone has said that the USC is the material cause of the failure. The point is that the USC is causing additional damage to parts that usually just sit there and last the life of the car. This is also confirmed by the high wear metals in UOAs.

  13. #192
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    linky?
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  14. #193
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Before anyone runs or continues to run any blend that involves the synchromesh or any variant of Uncle Scotty's ****tail,
    I too agree that syncromesh does not belong in the mix and had suspicions of it here: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/2193716-post53.html . That is why what I ended up running was a 2 oil blend, refer to the first post.

    Followed by vvv

    Quote Originally Posted by 06wrx4me View Post
    ^^^ Exactly. LW shockproof only.

    I still am really happy with the Amsoil SVG and Shockproof mix. Very nice smooth shifting, nice and quiet. Better IMO then Uncle Scottys mix, but I blame that on the "Syncromesh" fluid. Its not compatible with the other two and doesn't belong.
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  15. #194
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
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    OK, well swapped out the USC with Extra S. We'll see how it goes. Only had 9k miles on the ****tail (with no problems), so hopefully no ill effects on the tranny (only have 19k on the car so far). I'm sure there is some still left in there, as I was only able to get 3.25 qts of Extra S in the tranny.

    Seems to shift well. Time will tell...
    06 GTO M6 Quicksilver, SLP 455 Bobcat, LS7 Clutch w/ SS line (RPM tune:373rwhp/373rwtq)
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  16. #195
    Registered User Pavia's Avatar
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    Well after 100 miles, Extra S is like sweet, sweet butter...

    I found my new lube for business and pleasure... and I have 5 gallons of it
    06 GTO M6 Quicksilver, SLP 455 Bobcat, LS7 Clutch w/ SS line (RPM tune:373rwhp/373rwtq)
    07 WRX TR M5 Garnet Red Pearl w/ Straight PPGs and Cusco front LSD (Agile tune:307whp/343wtq)

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