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This is a discussion on Wheel spacers! within the Exterior & Appearance forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; OK, a torque wrench has a long handle because the length gives you leverage to apply more pressure. The longer ...

  1. #31
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    OK, a torque wrench has a long handle because the length gives you leverage to apply more pressure. The longer the handle is, the less you have to push to break the nut loose right?

    It is the same thing here. When you add those 20-25mm spacers, even the Ichiba V2s, you are making the 'handle' of the wheel longer. This means that your normal 3200lbs car is now exerting more force on the wheel studs than they were designed for, and they can shear off.

    You can get away with this to some extent by using wider wheels because when properly fit, the offset is calculated to not add additional strain as you are adding width towards the outer fender and towards the inner fender wall. If you were to get a wheel that is 20mm wider, it would be 10mm closer to the inner wall of the wheel well, and 10 mm closer to the outside of the fender.

    You would not want to get a set of wheels with a crazy offset that made them stick way out, it would be the same effect as big spacers. In fact you would be hard pressed to find a shop that would sell or mount wheels that are like that as they are dangerous. The only way you could get buy with something like that would be to replace all your wheel studs with ones that are way stronger, then shortly after when you realize the geometry has killed your suspension, be prepared to pay big bucks to replace everything at all 4 corners.
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  3. #32
    Dimensional Drifter Rambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamXp View Post
    This thread is officially derailed.

    Other than the additional strain from either using longer wheel studs, if you use the Ichiba Type 2, for example, with the bolt on adapter plate, what would be the additional strain as opposed to just using wider wheels and greater offset?
    Well, I'm open to debate on this, but going along loosely with what Demon was getting at, here's my line of thinking: Yes, you would have additional stresses with high offset wheels, but then the added bending stress of the high offset is handled in the wheel itself (the wheel mount on the studs is the same, so no additional bending on the studs).

    A reputable wheel manufacturer will design their wheels to manage this stress, and while that stress due to high offset will be eventually transmitted through the wheel to the stud in the form of shear, since the wheel is properly mounted on the stud, I'd be much less worried about it than if the stress was applied in bending, as it would with a spacer.

    Again, I'd have to actually do a force analysis to prove all of this, but maybe the other MEs on here can chime in. I'm not too proud to admit I could be wrong here, and I'd be really curious to to see a real analysis.
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  4. #33
    "Supreme Subaphile Extraordinairre" ninefourteener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamXp View Post
    This thread is officially derailed.
    You're right... sorry about that... I deleted my pics that had nothing to do with this post.

    On topic a bit..... my biggest concern with the worg offset.... isn't the wheels... but the wheel BEARINGS... will will prematurely wear with high offset wheels, especially if a high negative camber is used. Ever priced having a wheel bearing replaced?
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  5. #34
    Luke Skywalker Mikie13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninefourteener View Post
    You're right... sorry about that... I deleted my pics that had nothing to do with this post.

    On topic a bit..... my biggest concern with the worg offset.... isn't the wheels... but the wheel BEARINGS... will will prematurely wear with high offset wheels, especially if a high negative camber is used. Ever priced having a wheel bearing replaced?
    Or all four...


    dude, throw your pics into one of your threads or in the motorcycle discussion subforum!
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  6. #35
    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    So we've been mostly talking about pretty large spacers here...

    A guy over on IWSTI pointed out that the front track of the GR is a bit smaller (10-20mm) than the rear. He couldn't quite get his car to a 'neutral' behavior with sways/springs/etc somehow, so he actually added small spacers on the front wheels only. I think he actually used 10 or 15... so fairly large actually.

    I saw above that using them on two wheels was bad - I'd assume due to the center diff. I'm a bit confused as to why some minor spacers would be hard if you just have it on two wheels. Wouldn't the torque applied be the same until you went into a turn?

    ...Discussion?
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  7. #36
    Registered User SamXp's Avatar
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    Bearing load, in relation to offset, given Archimedes principle, should be the same for a +40mm offset with a 15mm spacer and a wider 55mm offset wheel without a spacer, no?
    Steering geometry does change somewhat, but not necessarily for the worse.

    As for internal stresses in the wheel, as opposed to the stresses in a spacer, that is a valid point and the reason a very sturdy spacer is needed, and seldom recommended for severe track use.

    I've got 15mm spacers right now, on all four corners, and can't imagine that I am in danger of damage.

    The extreme cases of severely offset wheels for misguided aesthetics may be an entirely different case altogether.

  8. #37
    Registered User morgan46's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the great comments guys. this thread was all hypothetical. I was just curious. Didnt know I was gunna get bashed for thinking out loud.
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  9. #38
    Dimensional Drifter Rambo's Avatar
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    I don't think you got bashed much, but wheel spacers are largely taboo around here, with some exceptions. It's great that you're asking questions. I know most people much prefer answering honest questions before any damage is done, rather than troubleshooting broken cars and angry people afterwards. Happy modding!
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  10. #39
    Registered User morgan46's Avatar
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  11. #40
    Registered User SamXp's Avatar
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    So, over a year later, and after trying both 15mm and 25mm spacers, here are my findings:

    1) Compromises to steering geometry are the biggest downside. With the 15mm spacers, the change was slight, but notable. At 25mm, it was awful. The car tended to tramline a lot more, and slip angle was so severe during hard cornering that the car would lurch, at times. Also, in a parking lot, I would notice some lurching, slip as the mismatched caster and slip angle would increase.
    2) The small nuts that come with the Ichiba spacers are soft, and have a very small hex length, which makes it VERY easy to strip the nut during removal. These should be hardened steel, given the short length needed for bolt-on spacers. They need to be very tight to prevent vibration, and removing them is NOT easy.
    3) Slight vibrations increase in amplitude, given the larger resultant wheel offset. This wasn't too bad, but might be what leads to premature bearing failure for those that use them for extended periods of time.

    I removed them last night, and won't be using them again with the factory wheels. I'll continue to use the 15mm spacers with my winter wheels (Legacy GT 16x7 Snowflakes) in order to achieve the same offset as factory. But I won't use these bolt on versions any more. Those small nuts are a deal breaker.

  12. #41
    Registered User Bugeyemania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamXp View Post
    So, over a year later, and after trying both 15mm and 25mm spacers, here are my findings:

    1) Compromises to steering geometry are the biggest downside. With the 15mm spacers, the change was slight, but notable. At 25mm, it was awful. The car tended to tramline a lot more, and slip angle was so severe during hard cornering that the car would lurch, at times. Also, in a parking lot, I would notice some lurching, slip as the mismatched caster and slip angle would increase.
    2) The small nuts that come with the Ichiba spacers are soft, and have a very small hex length, which makes it VERY easy to strip the nut during removal. These should be hardened steel, given the short length needed for bolt-on spacers. They need to be very tight to prevent vibration, and removing them is NOT easy.
    3) Slight vibrations increase in amplitude, given the larger resultant wheel offset. This wasn't too bad, but might be what leads to premature bearing failure for those that use them for extended periods of time.

    I removed them last night, and won't be using them again with the factory wheels. I'll continue to use the 15mm spacers with my winter wheels (Legacy GT 16x7 Snowflakes) in order to achieve the same offset as factory. But I won't use these bolt on versions any more. Those small nuts are a deal breaker.
    Solid Review SamXp^^^

    this thread was very helpful, wont catch me with any spacers...

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