50/50 weight distribution
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

This is a discussion on 50/50 weight distribution within the Everyday Impreza Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I started thinking about this after watching the Rally NZ last night. They had this cool animation showing how a ...

  1. #1
    Registered User WRC_Obsessed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Boston/NNJ
    Posts
    9,023

    50/50 weight distribution

    I started thinking about this after watching the Rally NZ last night.

    They had this cool animation showing how a production car and a rally car would take turns differently at speed. It showed the production car pushing to the outside and the rally car hugging the turn perfectly. They said that is mainly due to the rally car's 50/50 weight distribution.

    They said that they actually add ballast to the rear of the car to achieve this. My question is - would anyone go that far in their production car? This, coupled with a very nice suspension setup would create a canyon carving dream.
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Registered User BoostedBoxer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NOR*Cal
    Posts
    6,557
    big sky's weight managment thread in suspension adresses this.
    My Car is 100% STOCK!
    Pics

    Originally posted by platano
    At 14???
    shoot , I'd hit it at current age, on roof of the car, with cousin driving , neighbor and town priest in the back seat, and that kid from "N.Korea" riding shotgun.

  4. #3
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Green Mountain, Colorado
    Posts
    5,584
    I Support ClubWRX
    THis really oughta be moved to Suspension and Handling......

    We've discussed quite a bit doing things like moving the battery to the trunk. Nobody has talked about adding balast though.......Interesting idea though! You're talking 300lbs or so though.....that's quite a bit of weight. But if you could lose some weight up front (i.e. subframe) and move some to the back (i.e. battery) you wouldn't need to add as much weight in the rear. Of course you would need to compensate w/ springs.....
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
    2002 WRX SportWagon *sold*

  5. #4
    Registered User WRC_Obsessed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Boston/NNJ
    Posts
    9,023
    Originally posted by GV27
    THis really oughta be moved to Suspension and Handling......
    You are right. Sorry about that.

    I though it was very interesting to see them add ballast to the cars.

    Moving the battery, removing the subframe would work but to get it right to 50/50 you still have to add some weight.

    I am getting coilovers in a couple months so I should be able to tune them for 50/50.
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

  6. #5
    Registered User EvilCerealBoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    ATX
    Posts
    2,427
    wagon's have 50/50 weight distribution already...

  7. #6
    Registered User boxer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Posts
    31

    Re: 50/50 weight distribution

    Originally posted by WRC_Obsessed
    My question is - would anyone go that far in their production car?
    Most of BMW has near 50/50 weight distribution ratio.

  8. #7
    Hammerdown Mod of Thunder josnroh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    oHIo
    Posts
    17,681
    I Support ClubWRX
    Originally posted by EvilCerealBoX
    wagon's have 50/50 weight distribution already...
    I don't know about that. The wagon weighs only 80lbs more than the sedan.
    JOE/Flyin' Under the Radar/2015 Buckeye Boxer WRX
    2003 Hammerdown Wagon WRX(sold)
    1983 GL-10 Wagon (RIP)

    http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/282947.png

  9. #8
    Registered User Wade-0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Southern Orygun
    Posts
    3,809
    Originally posted by josnroh
    I don't know about that. The wagon weighs only 80lbs more than the sedan.
    It's not just about weight, it's about distribution. The wagon has very different geometry than the sedan, even the A-pillars are different.

    I've also read (here probably) that wagons are closer to 50/50 weight distribution: wagon vs sedan
    Last edited by Wade-0; 04-19-2004 at 07:37 PM.

  10. #9
    Registered User Stallion STi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    123
    Originally posted by EvilCerealBoX
    wagon's have 50/50 weight distribution already...
    THAT'S IT........ I'm trading mine in for the wagon tomorrow. End of discussion.

    I believe there is a special device for it. It can weigh the car and differentiate it at mid point and measure the weight separately between front end and rear end based on that mid point of the car.
    Last edited by Stallion STi; 04-19-2004 at 11:29 PM.
    1998 SVT Cobra Coupe - 623 RWHP (Silver)
    2001 BMW M5 (LeMans Blue)
    2004 Ducati 999 Monoposto (Red)
    2004 Subaru WRX STi (Platinum Silver)
    2006 BMW 750 Li (Sterling Grey)

  11. #10
    Registered User bunni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    125

    Re: 50/50 weight distribution

    Originally posted by WRC_Obsessed
    They said that they actually add ballast to the rear of the car to achieve this. My question is - would anyone go that far in their production car? This, coupled with a very nice suspension setup would create a canyon carving dream.
    It's called a wagon.

  12. #11
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Green Mountain, Colorado
    Posts
    5,584
    I Support ClubWRX
    The Wagon is closER to 50/50 - but only by 2% points. 48/42 or so.......

    The thing you have to understand about the WRC car is that they MUST add ballast somewhere to the car by rule. There is a minimum weight rule, so the teams try to build the car as light as possible, then go back and add ballast. That way they can put the ballast way down low for center of gravity, and front to rear wherever they want to to achieve not only the weight distriution over the axles they want but also the moment of inertia they're looking for.

    Now if there was no minimum weight rule, it's not as clear cut how much weight they'd be willing to add.

    I believe there is a special device for it. It can weigh the car and differentiate it at mid point and measure the weight separately between front end and rear end based on that mid point of the car.
    Huh? For weight distribution you just put all four wheels on scales. If they weigh the same, the car is evenly weighted.

    Of course the WRC teams go way beyond simple front/rear distribution and do computation modeling around exactly where all the weight is is the car.

    As an example, compare a mid-engined car w/ 50/50 distribution vs a front-engined car with 50/50 distribution. They're going to handle considerably different due to different moments of inertia. Moment of inertia is well beyond my ability to explain it simply, but basically the mid-engined car will tend to rotate faster because it's weight is concentrated in the middle of the car, where the front-engined car will be generally more stable but not as "flickable" w/ its weight more spread out front to rear.

    Getting back to the ballast, this means that teams try to arange stuff within the wheelbase as much as possible. But they have to balance this with Z-axis (vertical) center of mass - you don't just want to pile stuff up in the center of the car, you want to try to keep things low. If they can keep things light, the ballast can be set closer to the center of the car because of leverage vs. a little ballast placed way back in the car.

    In other words, you might look at your WRX and say, well I could add 300lbs over the axle, or I could add a 50lb trailer hitch with a 50lb weight hanginig on it. That looks better at first, but might make the handling a bit strange. The ideal is somewhere in the middle. Or perhaps the trade off between power/weight ratio and chassis balance makes a 55/45 balance optimal if you can't lose any weight off the front. Or perhaps 50/40 is optimal..........



    C
    Last edited by GV27; 04-20-2004 at 06:08 AM.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
    2002 WRX SportWagon *sold*

  13. #12
    Registered User WRC_Obsessed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Boston/NNJ
    Posts
    9,023
    Is anyone aware of a company who would provide some sort of ballast to add? Maybe a rally company?
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

  14. #13
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Green Mountain, Colorado
    Posts
    5,584
    I Support ClubWRX
    LOL. Maybe, but this is a DIY job if I've ever seen one! You just use chunks of lead and find convenient places to bolt/glue them!

    Maybe just poor some molten lead into the spare tire well!
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
    2002 WRX SportWagon *sold*

  15. #14
    Registered User WRC_Obsessed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Boston/NNJ
    Posts
    9,023
    Originally posted by GV27
    LOL. Maybe, but this is a DIY job if I've ever seen one! You just use chunks of lead and find convenient places to bolt/glue them!

    Maybe just poor some molten lead into the spare tire well!
    LOL! Some damn good suggestions.
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

  16. #15
    Registered User snowcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    2,635
    @ this thread!

    Now I know you are all crazy; I'm gonna trade the WRX for a Neon or it might happen to me!

    SAFETY FIRST! Toss a big heavy weight in the back, and during a collision that weight is likely to break loose and rip you a new one...

    -snowcat
    <---- my cat doing a hawkeye impersonation!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. We strongly suggest that you stay away from using aol, yahoo, msn, and hotmail accounts. Sometimes the mail server blocks the emails from our server. As a result you will not receive any notifications including the confirmation email.

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •