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This is a discussion on WRX Sparks many reactions from different people within the Everyday Impreza Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by teflon_jones How often are you driving these roads that you're willing to sacrifice so much road performance ...

  1. #181
    Registered User gregroot198521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    How often are you driving these roads that you're willing to sacrifice so much road performance for off-road performance? I started down the road of making some mods to my old STI so it would be fine on forest roads like skid plates, but at the end of the day, most gravel roads can be handled just fine with stock suspension and tires until you really get to pushing the car at very high i.e. unsafe speeds. I'm not familiar with what roads are really available in TX, but my experience with non-paved roads is in general that there's a line where you really need far more suspension travel and other capabilities beyond what higher suspension and bigger tires are going to give you. If you know the roads, then there's maybe 1% of things where those will help you, but otherwise like I said stock will be just fine and maybe you have to slow down occasionally for those 1% of circumstances.
    Who said anything about roads? I go where Jeeps go, but I have enough stiffness to go sideways in the flatter junk, and not tip. I can definitely say the stock suspension wasn't cutting it though. The real question is though, was your experience with dirt roads in the blob-eye or the stink-eye?
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  3. #182
    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    Well a Jeep can go on a paved road or some pretty serious off-road trails depending on the driver and model/mods. Most of the roads I consider real "off-roading" would leave your car stranded within the first few hundred feet. That didn't really answer my question though which was how much time you're really spending on those roads. Ultimately the mods on your car are only going to get you through fire roads, rough ones though some of them may be. I don't understand what you mean about the stiffness. Why would a Jeep (or any vehicle) flip on the "flatter junk?" Do you have skid plates on your car yet?

    My experience was mostly in my blobeye. I've taken my new STI on fire roads for hundreds of miles (maybe a thousand by now), but those only have rare places where I needed to worry about bottoming out, and I know the roads well so I just slowed down for those sections and practiced good wheel placement to get me through.
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  4. #183
    Registered User gregroot198521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    Well a Jeep can go on a paved road or some pretty serious off-road trails depending on the driver and model/mods. Most of the roads I consider real "off-roading" would leave your car stranded within the first few hundred feet. That didn't really answer my question though which was how much time you're really spending on those roads. Ultimately the mods on your car are only going to get you through fire roads, rough ones though some of them may be. I don't understand what you mean about the stiffness. Why would a Jeep (or any vehicle) flip on the "flatter junk?" Do you have skid plates on your car yet?

    My experience was mostly in my blobeye. I've taken my new STI on fire roads for hundreds of miles (maybe a thousand by now), but those only have rare places where I needed to worry about bottoming out, and I know the roads well so I just slowed down for those sections and practiced good wheel placement to get me through.
    How can you talk about knowing what mods I have but not know whether I have a skid plate or not. I posted my build thread links the last page. Then you claim that true off-roading would leave me stranded. Seriously?! I romp through the desert in this monster, and I'm not talking that flat sandy crap most people would think of, I'm talking about ugly little pineapple looking "trees" everywhere; thick thorny bushes; and the other random plants that will destroy most vehicles. Bumper breaks it, and I continue on. Yes, there are ruts & rocks that I won't even bother with, but for the most part, I can drive her wherever I wish with few issues. Mainly issues with gearing. And to answer the other question, where is the COG of a Jeep that is lifted compared my COG? I know I can take a 90* corner at 40mph with my current suspension setup, even a half inch higher I could. With the larger sidewall I'm driving on now, I don't feel comfortable doing the same corner at more than 30mph, and that's because the rubber doesn't grip the road great on cornering, they break free too quickly. Now please show me a Jeep that can do the same type of street driving but still off-roa with me. No worries, I'll wait.

    The WRX suspension is even worse off-road than 08+ STis, from what I've heard, so there's the reason behind my suspension choice. I have 12k on my car, and I would say a 2-3k of that has been off-road travel; fire-roads, tank trails, making my own path through the desert, etc.... The stock suspension definitely wasn't taking it before very well, though maybe it wouldn't be as bad with my meatier wheel setup now. Still wouldn't want to do 40mph down the trails I take with the stock setup regardless. Too floaty.
    Last edited by gregroot198521; 06-06-2012 at 01:09 AM.
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  5. #184
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  6. #185
    Registered User Hung_Wei_Lo's Avatar
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    hahaha why get so defensive again, gregroot?

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  8. #187
    Registered User etnpnys's Avatar
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    Yeah really... Calm down dude.
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  9. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hung_Wei_Lo View Post
    hahaha why get so defensive again, gregroot?

    I wasn't going to say anything, but this thought did cross my mind as well. You say you've had bad receptions at numerous other forums, and in reading your posts in this thread I have noticed that you get pretty defensive pretty quickly. Of course, one of the big pitfalls of internet forums is that you only get words, and none of the visual and auditory cues that help us all understand the intent and thoughts behind them. I can see how some of the comments made about your car could cause you to get defensive, but those challenges about what your car is/can do are not challenges against you personally, and you responded to them personally.

    Those guys are simply stating their beliefs about the subject based on their experiences and knowledge. If you have contradictory experience, then this is the place to say it, but remember that just as they don't know what you are thinking behind the words you type here, that road goes two ways. So, my advice is to fight what you consider to be inaccurate comments about your car with information and examples, not anger. And those things are in your posts, but the personal attacks and challenges make it hard for other people to see them. You may find that you'll get a better reaction in these forums that you've been struggling with.
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  10. #189
    Registered User teflon_jones's Avatar
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    Please refrain from personal attacks per the forum rules. And take a chill pill dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregroot198521 View Post
    How can you talk about knowing what mods I have but not know whether I have a skid plate or not. I posted my build thread links the last page. Then you claim that true off-roading would leave me stranded. Seriously?! I romp through the desert in this monster, and I'm not talking that flat sandy crap most people would think of, I'm talking about ugly little pineapple looking "trees" everywhere; thick thorny bushes; and the other random plants that will destroy most vehicles. Bumper breaks it, and I continue on. Yes, there are ruts & rocks that I won't even bother with, but for the most part, I can drive her wherever I wish with few issues. Mainly issues with gearing. And to answer the other question, where is the COG of a Jeep that is lifted compared my COG? I know I can take a 90* corner at 40mph with my current suspension setup, even a half inch higher I could. With the larger sidewall I'm driving on now, I don't feel comfortable doing the same corner at more than 30mph, and that's because the rubber doesn't grip the road great on cornering, they break free too quickly. Now please show me a Jeep that can do the same type of street driving but still off-roa with me. No worries, I'll wait.
    I was referring to your suspension mods. I didn't look at your build thread because I didn't see a link. Going over plants doesn't constitute off-roading, and no off-road vehicle is going to have any trouble doing that. Specifically what off-road vehicles are you referring to that can't run over a plant and they would "destroy" it? You obviously have a very simple view of off-roading. Taking a corner at 40 mph doesn't constitute off-roading. Going over things that require having low gearing (which you already said is a problem for you), large ground clearance, and off-road tread does. What you're talking about is fire road driving and not off-roading. Any of the trails I regularly take my Ford on would leave you stranded in the first couple hundred feet of the trail. I'm glad you can drive wherever you want, but that means you're not doing off-roading on trails where a Jeep would eat you for lunch. Your COG being lower than a Jeep is a direct result
    of your lack of ground clearance, which is a result of your vehicle not being an off-road vehicle and it being a road car you've slightly changed to allow you to run on fire roads and relatively flat ground. And you make no sense because first you say you can take a 90* corner at 40 mph with your current setup, then you say with your larger sidewall you don't feel comfortable doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by gregroot198521 View Post
    And to answer the other question, where is the COG of a Jeep that is lifted compared my COG? I know I can take a 90* corner at 40mph with my current suspension setup, even a half inch higher I could. With the larger sidewall I'm driving on now, I don't feel comfortable doing the same corner at more than 30mph, and that's because the rubber doesn't grip the road great on cornering, they break free too quickly. Now please show me a Jeep that can do the same type of street driving but still off-roa with me. No worries, I'll wait.
    Your COG being lower than a Jeep is a direct result of your lack of ground clearance, which is a result of your vehicle not being an off-road vehicle and it being a road car you've slightly changed to allow you to run on fire roads and relatively flat ground. And you make no sense because first you say you can take a 90* corner at 40 mph with your current setup, then you say with your larger sidewall you don't feel comfortable doing it at 30. Your tires breaking loose is another great example of why you don't have an off-road vehicle. I have no issues with the off-road-specific tires on my Ford breaking loose on dirt roads at those speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregroot198521 View Post
    Now please show me a Jeep that can do the same type of street driving but still off-roa with me. No worries, I'll wait.
    Show me a trail you can do that a Jeep can't do. Who cares about speed. In true off-roading the purpose isn't to go as fast as possible but just to be able to do it. I'll wait. And I'll be waiting forever because there isn't a single off-road trail out there even a low-end Jeep won't have more off-road abilities on.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregroot198521 View Post
    The WRX suspension is even worse off-road than 08+ STis, from what I've heard, so there's the reason behind my suspension choice. I have 12k on my car, and I would say a 2-3k of that has been off-road travel; fire-roads, tank trails, making my own path through the desert, etc.... The stock suspension definitely wasn't taking it before very well, though maybe it wouldn't be as bad with my meatier wheel setup now. Still wouldn't want to do 40mph down the trails I take with the stock setup regardless. Too floaty.
    Fire roads aren't off-roading. They're roads just as the name says. What exactly is a tank trail? You mean a road that tanks use? Where are you driving that tanks also drive?

    You're obviously very proud of your car and think it's the best off-road vehicle out there. I'm happy for you, but you don't have an off-road vehicle you have a road car that's slightly modified to be able to do fire road type driving. Don't call it an off-road vehicle because it doesn't have the tires, ground clearance, breakover angle, suspension travel, gearing, drivetrain design, or any of the other components of a true off-road vehicle. You would need different tires, more ground clearance, 4WD instead of AWD, more suspension travel, and a low gear range to start. Plus rock rails, full skid plates, better departure angles, and a whole lot more.

    With that I'm done. When people are @$$hats and respond like you did to my perfectly nice post I don't need to waste any more time on them. Enjoy your not off-road slightly modified road car driving in the desert on nice easy terrain.
    Scott
    Past Subies - '11 STI Limited stage 1+ and '04 STi stage 2+
    '13 Wrangler Rubicon - custom front bumper w/12k lb winch & off-road lights, skid plates, diff guards, etc.
    '04 Porsche 911 Turbo GT2 clone 600 HP/TQ
    '77 F-150 heavily modded for off-roading
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  11. #190
    Registered User etnpnys's Avatar
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    The bummer is that this thread was entertaining until a few days ago. Now I want it closed.
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  12. #191
    Registered User Hung_Wei_Lo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post

    What exactly is a tank trail? You mean a road that tanks use? Where are you driving that tanks also drive?
    I think he's gonna need this mod for them tank trails:

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  13. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by etnpnys View Post
    The bummer is that this thread was entertaining until a few days ago. Now I want it closed.
    It was also civil. I wouldn't say that it needs closing. I would say that someone (gregroot) needs to take a chill pill. We aren't personally attacking him or his car, but he has delusions of grandeur if he honestly thinks he has an offroad car that will leave Jeeps behind.
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  14. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post

    With that I'm done. When people are @$$hats and respond like you did to my perfectly nice post I don't need to waste any more time on them. Enjoy your not off-road slightly modified road car driving in the desert on nice easy terrain.
    +1

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  15. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drews View Post
    It was also civil. I wouldn't say that it needs closing.
    Agreed...
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