Project Hatch (aka project grocery getter part II) - Page 49
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This is a discussion on Project Hatch (aka project grocery getter part II) within the Everyday Impreza Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by tuskenraider I find the stock pads just fine for autox. No street tire will overtax them in ...

  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    I find the stock pads just fine for autox. No street tire will overtax them in most driving situations. I'll change to something else when they wear out, or find I don't like them with r-comps if I go that way next year.
    That's what I'm thinking, when I get dedicated track wheels and get some v710/hoosiers, I'll probably no longer be limited by tire traction when braking and therefore some decent pads would be worthwhile.

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    Hi BigSky,

    I'm wondering if you could explain/clarify a few suspension/shock related things to me as it relates to the stock scca rules. You said a while back

    "travel in the rear is slightly less than stock, stock ~ 160mm, Koni ~ 150mm- the Koni however has a shorter shock body by ~ 10mm (this adds bump travel- but reduces droop)- a nice feature for anyone running a lowering spring"

    So if the length of the body of the shock is less, then travel is less, then I assume 'travel' is defined as the difference in length when the shock is fully extended and fully compressed, which is constrained by the shock body. Does this mean that the exposed amount of piston rod is the same on the oem and the koni? If so this would say that the fully extended length of the koni is also 10mm less which is within the +- 1" rule (13.5.A.4). However, it seems to me that the length of the exposed piston rod would be less on a shock with a shorter body, so I wonder if so, by how much to make sure it is still stock legal.

    Also, doing some really bad drawing with hypothetical numbers, if the body is shorter and the exposed piston length is the same (which I don't think is the case, probably shorter) and you use the same bumpstop from the OEM shock, then I see no way we can be violating the bumpstop rule 13.5.D correct? If anything the length of the assembly when the bumpstop hits will be less, allowing us to cut the bumpstop by a given amount and still be legal...which I think (correct me if I'm wrong) is desirable since it will increase bump travel.

    So you say due to the difference in the LGT rear shock, we get increased bump travel but less droop travel. Is this desirable? I know that overall travel is reduced, but I'm sure the more pertinent info is the amount of travel in compression or expansion from equilibrium/ride height since stock is constrained in ride height/springs.

    Sorry for the possibly nonsensical rambling of questions, I'd just like to understand all this shock/suspension geometry stuff better . Any websites that explain this particularly well would be appreciated as well .

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    Oh maybe I misunderstood. You said the shock body is shorter by 10mm and the travel is less by 10mm. This would tell me, if I'm getting this right, that the full extended length is 20mm less than stock (still ok by the +- 1" rule). This would say that the length of the exposed piston rod at max length is shorter than OEM by 10mm right? (as in not the same as I assumed above so we're still good for the bumpstop rule).

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    yup you got it it's close, no doubt about it

    that don't allow bumpstops that are longer/engage sooner as they do act like a spring

    your correct they can be shortened, but I wouldn't- see above

    I actually went to firmer stops (their design is free as long as they don't engage sooner)
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    yup you got it it's close, no doubt about it

    that don't allow bumpstops that are longer/engage sooner as they do act like a spring

    your correct they can be shortened, but I wouldn't- see above

    I actually went to firmer stops (their design is free as long as they don't engage sooner)
    Is it possible to have 'more travel' as in net travel from fully compressed to fully expanded without physically making the body longer?

    So is this 'movement' away from the stock shock geometry: ie less travel by 10mm but a higher proportion (compared to net travel) of available compression travel compared to rebound travel desirable. What are the pros and cons in autocross and/or daily driving?

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    there may be a way by altering the inner workings of the damper, but typically your going to need more length to get more travel

    the shorter body of the Koni rear shock allows more compression travel (at the expense of droop)- if your lowered this is helpful as typically as you lower you increase droop at the expense of compression (the old ride on the bump stop scenario)

    at stock ride height I don't think there is any tangible benefit, for stock class autox I don't see any real benefit, but I don't see any real downside- the decrease in droop wouldn't be enough to effect anything much- if you were rallying/offroading you'd want that extra droop back

    I think if Koni ever makes these specifically for the WRX they will closely mimic oe overall travel

    their previous gen dampers were very close to oe spec in regards to overall travel (as are the front LGT ones on the 0810 WRX's)

    the Bilsteins are going to be tested in the next day or two- I'm betting travel wise they are very close to stock- I'm sure I can the specs from Myles when he's done testing
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    there may be a way by altering the inner workings of the damper, but typically your going to need more length to get more travel

    the shorter body of the Koni rear shock allows more compression travel (at the expense of droop)- if your lowered this is helpful as typically as you lower you increase droop at the expense of compression (the old ride on the bump stop scenario)

    at stock ride height I don't think there is any tangible benefit, for stock class autox I don't see any real benefit, but I don't see any real downside- the decrease in droop wouldn't be enough to effect anything much- if you were rallying/offroading you'd want that extra droop back

    I think if Koni ever makes these specifically for the WRX they will closely mimic oe overall travel

    their previous gen dampers were very close to oe spec in regards to overall travel (as are the front LGT ones on the 0810 WRX's)

    the Bilsteins are going to be tested in the next day or two- I'm betting travel wise they are very close to stock- I'm sure I can the specs from Myles when he's done testing
    Myles told me not even 45 minutes ago that the specs both strut and shock are going to be identical to OE but with more comp. travel due to shorter (but stiffer) bump stop.

    I'm starting to lean in the direction of the Bilsteins. I'm on the list for the intro price and it seems that they last a bit longer between rebuilds, and rebuilds are cheaper to boot. On the other hand the Koni's are adjustable, but apparently don't last as long and rebuilds are expensive (almost to the point that you'd just want to buy new ones).

    I guess I'm a bit torn at the moment .

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    don't get me wrong I like the Koni's (this isn't my first go round w/ them either), BUT if I didn't have dampers already I'd go w/ the Bilsteins (barring some crazy stuff discovered during testing- unlikely)

    Bilstein builds a good damper (as does Koni)- these are being made specifically for the 08-10 WRX though- this IMO gives them the upper hand
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    I thought you had a STi... hmmm i am losing my mind

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96accord View Post
    I thought you had a STi... hmmm i am losing my mind
    Moi'? your losing your mind

    this is number three for me- all WRX's
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    The other thing pushing me in the direction of the Bilsteins is no gutting the OEM strut and custom bushings for the rear shock. Given the number of 08 owners with blown shocks due to lowering who think the 09s are a lot better, I'm sure I could sell them for a few hundred...to offset the Bilstein cost. Then the modification/autox bug will get me again in a year or two and I'll want to go to STU and do full coilovers anyway . Resale of the bolt on Bilsteins that aren't frankenstein Konis will probably be better as well .

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    yeah - there is definitely some resale value w/ the oe stuff
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    Moi'? your losing your mind

    this is number three for me- all WRX's
    I thought your current WRX was an STi... I am definitely losing my mind

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    well technically it's probably the WRX that is closest to an STi that I've owned
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    I've been following a bit of the RCE chat for the '09 on NASIOC and Toronto Subaru Club. It's turned into a bit of a threadzilla. What's your thought's on the latest developments there BigSky?

    Say for myself, likely to do a bit of Auto-X and the occassional trackday in the spring. Will be first season, stock class, no R-Comps. Would RCE's solutions be a good thing to bet on, or just go with sways? (Canadian rules allow me sways front and back).

    I can't really budget both and leave enough over for tires and pads.

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