Road & Track: 09WRX vs MS3 vs Ralliart vs Cobalt

[RayfieldsWRX]

Originally Posted by 2:43AM

There has to be some curb appeal and extras to go along with it...at least for me! If I'm not getting much besides a 4-cylinder engine and a turbo, then $25k-$27k is a waste of money. Just my opinion.

This was true for me as well, until the last few years. I'm more about the driving experience and the utility of the car, at this point. It finally dawned on me one day that I have no one left to show off for.

[ninefourteener]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

It has to be different drivers. Mistimed laps. Non-spec Cobalt SS. Or they're simply lying.

I agree 100%. Car companies have been underhanding large media corporations for years... It's nothing new, and this is no exception.... I don't buy one word of it.

GM (as well as all other USDM car companies) are hurting. Their resale values suck, their reliability ratings suck, the cars are too expensive (for an initial investment).

At the same time, JDM cars are comparitively priced, yet far better cars.

The public doesn't trust USDM car companies anymore.... rightfully so. Too many people have lost their ass on a USDM POS in the past, and they'll never buy again (Myself included)

With the gas crisis, the 1970's-era USDM car concept "bigger engines are better", and the all the factors mentioned above, USDM car companies are DESPERATE to get some of the JDM, turbocharged, gas-sipping (by comparison) money that's being spent.

You can TELL they are hurting.... just watch commercials on TV. Sorry, but no amount of "gas rebates", "$3 per gallon for 3 years gimmicks", "employee pricing" gimmicks" is going to get me to buy another quickly depreciating USDM POS.... ever.

This article was BOUGHT by GM.... no doubt in my mind.

[stare_decisis]

i am one to give credit where credit is due...


with that in mind i respect the cobalt ss. it's lacking in quality, but in a car costing $22k...i'm not putting quality on my top tier. i believe this car (in coupe guise) also set the world record for fastest FWD around the 'ring...beating the second place Opel by over 11 seconds. i test drove an 09 coupe a couple of weeks ago. it didn't feel nearly as precise or refined as my 07 civic si...but it went like hell when you floored it. the brakes were also quite grabby. it feels a lot like a old srt-4...which is also a great car. so props to chevy for finally making something that can compete!

[08WRXkid]

Originally Posted by ninefourteener

I agree 100%. Car companies have been underhanding large media corporations for years... It's nothing new, and this is no exception.... I don't buy one word of it.

GM (as well as all other USDM car companies) are hurting. Their resale values suck, their reliability ratings suck, the cars are too expensive (for an initial investment).

At the same time, JDM cars are comparitively priced, yet far better cars.

The public doesn't trust USDM car companies anymore.... rightfully so. Too many people have lost their ass on a USDM POS in the past, and they'll never buy again (Myself included)

With the gas crisis, the 1970's-era USDM car concept "bigger engines are better", and the all the factors mentioned above, USDM car companies are DESPERATE to get some of the JDM, turbocharged, gas-sipping (by comparison) money that's being spent.

You can TELL they are hurting.... just watch commercials on TV. Sorry, but no amount of "gas rebates", "$3 per gallon for 3 years gimmicks", "employee pricing" gimmicks" is going to get me to buy another quickly depreciating USDM POS.... ever.

This article was BOUGHT by GM.... no doubt in my mind.

I agree with the fact that USDM car companies are dying from lack of sales, but I disagree with the part about all USDM cars being POS, I will not deny u that in the 90's the big three were definately going through a brain fart in the quality department but I think that has greatly changed. With the exception of Chrysler motor corp (always be crap IMO besides Viper, and Charger cop cars and SRT vehicles) GM and Ford while still dying in the sales dpt. have stepped it up and are making some pretty nice cars and trucks with decent motors and good quality

[08WRXkid]

Originally Posted by 08WRXkid

I agree with the fact that USDM car companies are dying from lack of sales, but I disagree with the part about all USDM cars being POS, I will not deny u that in the 90's the big three were definately going through a brain fart in the quality department but I think that has greatly changed. With the exception of Chrysler motor corp (always be crap IMO besides Viper, and Charger cop cars and SRT vehicles) GM and Ford while still dying in the sales dpt. have stepped it up and are making some pretty nice cars and trucks with decent motors and good quality

I also think this article was not bought there is no way that happened, I think they really thought it was a better car and if you look at it from a performance stand point it is (for a FWD)

[YBNormal07]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Wow. Just wow. I hadn't seen that article -- many thanks for posting it. I don't think I'm ever going to bother buying C&D again after reading that.

It has to be different drivers. Mistimed laps. Non-spec Cobalt SS. Or they're simply lying.

I've driven all of the above except for the Lotus and 135i, some on and off the track. I've owned an Evo MR, and an S2000 (not the CR). I currently own an '08 WRX.

First, in my personal experience, they're simply wrong. The Cobalt isn't even in the same universe, performance-wise. It's close to a stock WRX, sure, but not even close to an STi or Evo.

Second, looking simply at the paper it is absolutely beyond the pale to suggest that a 2975 lb., fwd car, making 260/260 at the crank is going to even come close to touching most of the above. The Lotus SC is rwd/mid, is truly race-bred, makes 218/156, and weighs only 2000 lbs. The Elise runs 0-60 in around 4.4. The Cobalt in 5.6 or so.

And the Cobalt won? On the track? Very funny.

I've seen some ugly bias and outright lying in motor magazines, but I always gave the nod to C&D in terms of being mostly honest. Not anymore.

The only way a Cobalt is going to house an Evo, or an STi, or an Elise, is if we're posting Andretti's lap times for the Cobalt, and mine for the others.

Hmmm...shades of the Neon SRT-4 when it first started making the rounds.
Consider the track. An Elise quickly runs out of breath on long straights and although it is known as an all out track car, imho...it isn't since most cars with better top end and decent grip/cornering can actually take it...drivers being equal. It's a go-cart made to look like a car, plain and simple. A real joy to run on a smooth track though. Rough surface..fugetabout it...it bounces all over the place.
The 135i is way overated. To heavy for it's niche and underpowered to boot.
Don't forget tires. The Cobalt has some semi-serious shoes, whereas the WRX has sloppy slippers shod on all fours.
The engine in the Cobalt is a nice unit. GM continues to invest good R&D in this engine and it is showing. Now if they could just fix it's looks...still too cavalierish for my tasts. It's those weak front ends and semi-feminine rear shoulders that turn me away.
I find it odd that folks claim that something the read "on paper" is incorrect", and refute it with "on paper" arguments. The proof is when the rubber hits the road. I test drove the new Cobalt and it is no slouch...at all. Feels underated in HP department if anything. Frumaroll..it'll eat a WRX's lunch, and likely keep very close tabs on an STi.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, but hey...just gotta say these things sometimes.

[08WRXkid]

I agree with everything you say, the cobalt is quite the stout vehicle.... the only hting i disagree with is the comment about the 135i, if you have driven one you would no its not overrated, it has a phenomal transmission and motor combo those twin turbos are a beautiful sound. The car also handles great.... drive one you would be surprised IMO but to each his own.... also the new WRX corrects on all the short comings you mentioned about the 08 such as the crap tires, suspension etc. So the new WRX against a SS would be a good matchup.... from a roll

[SD_GR]

Originally Posted by BrianH

great time for sport compact cars.

Yes! The choices are more, the technology better, and with sales down the pricing might improve along with the dealer post-sales experience (I hate longer waits at the Subaru dealer after the WRX got popular; I wish lots of those people had bought RSXs or something!).

Cars in general have improved dramatically from yesteryear.

[Call_'er_Roxie]

I'd hate to think an article's outcome was bought especially from a long tenured mag, but I wouldn't doubt if there was some subjective influence based on personal opinions. I work as a reporting and data analyst, and no matter what the numbers are you can always tweak and bias the analysis part of things.

Anyway, for around 25K I expect more than just a driving experience too. I (and only I!) have to like the way it looks visually, and the car has to have functionality important to me as well (e.g. fold down seats). Of course there's the givens, like reliabilty. In the end, I do want to drive around with a smile on my face knowing that I can take that wet backroad 20 MPH turn at 60...

[RayfieldsWRX]

A lot of denial around here.

[2:43AM]

Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX

A lot of denial around here.

No kidding. I say we all sell our WRX's and buy Cobalt Sh*t Stains, oops, I mean SS's. No doubtedly, it's a fast car. But I think GM will still lose on this one. Around my area, I don't even see that many older Cobalt SS's.

AWD is great, but if the WRX would drop a couple hundred pounds in AWD drivetrain weight, I'm sure it would contend better.

For now, I'm sticking with my WRX!

[RayfieldsWRX]

No one's suggesting otherwise. I prefer what Subaru has to offer for my own reasons. Having said that, kudos to GM for putting affordable performance on the menu.

I find myself saying this a lot, these days: It's possible to love your Subaru, without declaring war on domestics, Mitsubishi, or [insert other "enemies" of the WRX here]. All of the name-calling and such just seems juvenile. The demographic has gotten weird around here, over the last couple of years. We used to be a community of car lovers... now it's more like professional wrestling, and we're all supposed to join sides.

[Sundawg]

Originally Posted by 2:43AM

AWD is great, but if the WRX would drop a couple hundred pounds in AWD drivetrain weight, I'm sure it would contend better.

For now, I'm sticking with my WRX!

I can't wait to see how the rear wheel drive coupe will do against this as it should be closer to the Cobalt's size, weight (and price) with hopefully the same horsepower as the WRX.

I expect to see a Cobalt killer.

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by 08WRXkid

So the new WRX against a SS would be a good matchup.... from a roll

False.

I agree that off the line, the WRX will hold that SS off all to way to the 1/4 mile and even beyond for a short while perhaps, but line the two up at 50mph roll and all the WRX will see is SS tail lights....stock vs stock of course.

[Pavia]

Cobalt SS turbo is the best of its versions. The new WRX has more power (than the 08), but same soft suspension. There both good buys...