Installation of a Manual Boost Controller in 02 WRX - Page 3
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This is a discussion on Installation of a Manual Boost Controller in 02 WRX within the Engine Performance forums, part of the Tutorials & DIY category; Is the dealer installed boost gauge accurate? Because i installed my boost controller and had it just under .11Mp which ...

  1. #31
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    Is the dealer installed boost gauge accurate? Because i installed my boost controller and had it just under .11Mp which is about 16psi so i turned up about 1/8 of a turn and was just slightly over .11Mp which would have been about 16.5psi give or take a half and my check engine light popped on and the car felt like a fuel cut about 4-5 grand into second gear. so should i buy a digital boost gauge to be certain of where i am on there. I've turned back to to about 16psi and have no problems, but the engine light is still on so i was wondering if i should reset the ecu or just go have it checked at autozone or something.
    Stock 04 Wagon goin' for 300awhp
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  3. #32
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    I'm looking at getting this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WRX-S...QQcmdZViewItem
    so if anyone know's if it's a good purchase or not that'd be great. It looks like a good product.
    Stock 04 Wagon goin' for 300awhp
    07 Ninja 250R sprayed
    99 GMC Sierra 2500 w/ C5 vette engine

  4. #33
    Registered User god910's Avatar
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    Just my personal preference but, I would not use that if it was given to me. You don't need a TT, and If I was going to pay $109 for a Boost gauge I'd be a Defi.
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    Ok, i'm having this F'ed up problem and i'm wondering if it can be solved by reseting the ecu. I've got everything hooked up right and have made sure that the boost stays between 15 and 16 psi, but as i wind out fourth and fifth, no mater how much i turn the boost down, it spikes about 17 or so right before i shift and i get this f'ed up fuel cut feel and then the check engine light comes on so i got it checked and it say's that bank 2 O2 sensor is slow to respond and something about the wastegate solinoid. any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    Stock 04 Wagon goin' for 300awhp
    07 Ninja 250R sprayed
    99 GMC Sierra 2500 w/ C5 vette engine

  6. #35
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Just to reiterate: although the 02 model is probably the only year that actually responds well to a MBC without it hosing the ECU, long term use of the MBC will cause problems with the WG solenoid and thus, interfere with boost control. It appears this is what is happening to you now. My recommendation is to get a new solenoid and remove the MBC, otherwise your headaches will only grow worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfausett84 View Post
    Ok, i'm having this F'ed up problem and i'm wondering if it can be solved by reseting the ecu. I've got everything hooked up right and have made sure that the boost stays between 15 and 16 psi, but as i wind out fourth and fifth, no mater how much i turn the boost down, it spikes about 17 or so right before i shift and i get this f'ed up fuel cut feel and then the check engine light comes on so i got it checked and it say's that bank 2 O2 sensor is slow to respond and something about the wastegate solinoid. any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    do you have any cats? do you have a CEL-defeat for the rear o2 sensor? that is typically the code indicated when there's an electrical CEL defeat wired into your harness.

    the wastegate solenoid cel is because you triggered overboost fuel cut.

    you need to set your MBC such that your target boost is hit in the higher gears, like 4 and 5. that means you'll probably hit lower boost in the lower gears.

    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    Just to reiterate: although the 02 model is probably the only year that actually responds well to a MBC without it hosing the ECU, long term use of the MBC will cause problems with the WG solenoid and thus, interfere with boost control.
    how does the MBC cause problems with the WG solenoid?

    i think the whole point of an MBC is to "interfere with boost control," don't you?

    It appears this is what is happening to you now. My recommendation is to get a new solenoid and remove the MBC, otherwise your headaches will only grow worse.
    as i stated earlier, the CEL for the solenoid is due to the fact that the ecu "thinks" it is broken, since it cannot control boost. if he stays out of fuel cut he'll never see that CEL again.

  8. #37
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Overboost/fuel cut comes up as a different CEL...not as the solenoid CEL. I speak from experience here.

    Regarding the point about the solenoid, again, I am speaking from experience in that the solenoid is usually the culprit after long term use of an MBC. As for the choice of the word "interfering", you are dead on. As for why it causes issues, I have never sat down to reason it out. All I can say is that eventually, there will be target boost issues down the road, with boost slowly become harder and harder to control. It would most likely be pinned down to either the solenoid, ECU, or MBC. Since the ECU is out, and having seen mulitple applciations of different MBCs on the same block, for me, logic says the issue was with the solenoid. Subsequent replacement of the solenoid cleared those issues up.
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfausett84 View Post
    so i got it checked and it say's that bank 2 O2 sensor is slow to respond and something about the wastegate solinoid. any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    He says it is the O2 sensor CEL..not a solenoid CEL.

    Anyone run an '03 with MBC?

    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by pweizman View Post
    He says it is the O2 sensor CEL..not a solenoid CEL.

    Anyone run an '03 with MBC?

    Patrick
    i have had an mbc on my car since 2 months after i bought it in feb '03.
    Last edited by ride5000; 02-05-2007 at 11:42 AM. Reason: wrong year.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
    i have had an mbc on my car since 2 months after i bought it in feb '02.
    Yes, but from your mods...it seems you are running a UTEC.

    I am wondering about anyone running a MBC sans EM.

    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07 View Post
    Overboost/fuel cut comes up as a different CEL...not as the solenoid CEL. I speak from experience here.
    is that so? you speak from experience?

    i'll bet the code he triggered is P0244 Wastegate control solenoid valve malfunction (high input).

    this IS the overboost fuel cut CEL. do a search.

    Regarding the point about the solenoid, again, I am speaking from experience in that the solenoid is usually the culprit after long term use of an MBC. As for the choice of the word "interfering", you are dead on. As for why it causes issues, I have never sat down to reason it out. All I can say is that eventually, there will be target boost issues down the road, with boost slowly become harder and harder to control. It would most likely be pinned down to either the solenoid, ECU, or MBC. Since the ECU is out, and having seen mulitple applciations of different MBCs on the same block, for me, logic says the issue was with the solenoid. Subsequent replacement of the solenoid cleared those issues up.
    you really don't know how the oem boost control system works, do you?

    when you put an MBC on the car, you disconnect ALL of the oem system. you have two pieces of hose, one from the compressor nipple to the mbc, and another from the mbc to the wastegate actuator. NO hoses go to the oem boost control solenoid.

    if, as you say, there are "target boost issues down the road, with boost slowly become harder and harder to control," then it is an absolute certainty that the issue is NOT with the oem boost control solenoid.

    you SAY you have experience, but it sure doesn't sound like it.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pweizman View Post
    Yes, but from your mods...it seems you are running a UTEC.

    I am wondering about anyone running a MBC sans EM.

    Patrick
    patrick, i ran for a little less than a year (about 10k miles) without EM using only an MBC, a boost gauge, and an EGT gauge.

    there are two rules:

    1) do not allow the car to develop full boost at part throttle.
    2) do not exceed ~14psi with 3 cats, 15psi w/2, 16psi w/1, or 17psi catless.

    you'll trigger boost cut at a little over 17psi anyway. it's there for a reason.

    IF while you're accelerating at part throttle, you feel a "lumpy powerband" sort of torque variation, that's a big clue that your ecu has detected knock and is adjusting the fine ignition correction maps accordingly. this part throttle knock is because you haven't been doing a good enough job with rule #1.

    i grew weary of the hassle of watching the boost at part throttle, so i wired up an analog circuit which was based on the throttle position sensor output and triggered a "grainger" solenoid. below a certain TPS the solenoid would prevent the MBC from having effect, thus preventing the "part throttle full boost" from occuring. of course, this solution had its own issue, namely that it was a binary affair (off and on) and that made fine throttle control somewhat impossible.

    having said all of that, if i were in your shoes today, i would take advantage of the well-developed openecu oem ecu reflashing tools that are out there. back when i was playing with this stuff you had to pay ecutek some 750 bucks for a one time reflash, so we made do with what we could. nowadays you get the same features as that ecutek tuner had 4 years ago for about $80 (the price of the cable).

    hth
    ken

  14. #43
    Registered User pweizman's Avatar
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    Good stuff Ken.

    I have read a TON about the Openecu stuff.

    I am probably going that way..but I am a bit scared of flashing a map onto my ECU...that could be very wrong for my exact car.

    However, you do the same thing with the AP...but a tuner stands behind it.

    Most of my experiece with turbo cars has been fantastic with a MBC. However, they were all older ('93 RX-7, '92 MR2 T, '92 Talon).

    These new-fangled computer controlled boost sytems have me corn-fused.

    Later,
    Patrick
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    Quote Originally Posted by pweizman View Post
    Good stuff Ken.

    I have read a TON about the Openecu stuff.

    I am probably going that way..but I am a bit scared of flashing a map onto my ECU...that could be very wrong for my exact car.
    to some extent, you're right to be wary.

    for example, it is pretty well known in the oecu circles that if you attempt to flash an ecu using a non-compatable flash method (ie, 02-03wrx use one method, 04-05wrx use another, and the 32 bit (2.5l ej255 engines) use yet another) you'll likely render your ecu an expensive paperweight.

    i know that i had some butterflies in the stomach when i first uploaded a map to the ecu! and this wasn't even regarding the tune itself!

    that said, with every passing day there is more evidence to suggest that the reflashing itself is VERY safe. i've reflashed about 50-75 times myself. never ever had a single unexpected issue. once i even danced with the devil and uploaded a map as my laptop battery was critically low.

    However, you do the same thing with the AP...but a tuner stands behind it.

    Most of my experiece with turbo cars has been fantastic with a MBC. However, they were all older ('93 RX-7, '92 MR2 T, '92 Talon).
    mbcs haven't changed. the ecus, on the other hand, have changed drastically. the bugeye ecu (ie 02-03) is probably the easiest to safely slap an MBC on. the closed to open loop delay period is very short, even in oem form. this is a preset temporal delay which must elapse before the ecu switches over to enriched (aka open loop) fueling. you NEED to be in enriched fueling to safely boost past 12psi or so. the 04s were HORRIBLE in this respect because their delay period was increased quite a bit, in the name of emissions reduction. it was bad even with the oem ecu controlling the boost. putting a fast-acting MBC on the car made the problem exponentially worse.

    now, even though the temporal delay is much shorter, there are still other parameters which must be met in order for the bugeye ecu to transition to enriched fueling. rpm, tps, and engine load (ie, grams of charge air per cylinder) are the big three. the logic is not simple either--it can have some complicated conditionals. this is why you really should run balls to the wall full boost only at WOT. you DON'T want to get into a situation where you're still running closed loop fueling (which targets stoich afr, 14.7:1) and boosting more than 12psi or so. when this happens, you'll probably knock, the ecu will pick it up, pull a degree or two from the fine ign learning map (which is load/rpm regionally based) and you end up with that "lumpy powerband" effect.

    These new-fangled computer controlled boost sytems have me corn-fused.

    Later,
    Patrick
    patrick, if nothing else, pick up one of those tactrix cables. you can, at the very least, read ecu data, trouble codes, reset the ecu, etc, all with the free "ecuexplorer" software. as you can imagine, this capability is VERY valuable, particularly when trying to troubleshoot some other engine issue down the road.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
    is that so? you speak from experience?

    i'll bet the code he triggered is P0244 Wastegate control solenoid valve malfunction (high input).

    this IS the overboost fuel cut CEL. do a search.



    you really don't know how the oem boost control system works, do you?

    when you put an MBC on the car, you disconnect ALL of the oem system. you have two pieces of hose, one from the compressor nipple to the mbc, and another from the mbc to the wastegate actuator. NO hoses go to the oem boost control solenoid.

    if, as you say, there are "target boost issues down the road, with boost slowly become harder and harder to control," then it is an absolute certainty that the issue is NOT with the oem boost control solenoid.

    you SAY you have experience, but it sure doesn't sound like it.
    Granted, it is quite clear I have no where near the knowledge you do when it comes to engine management and troubleshooting. However, I do have quite a bit of experience at personality management, for which you could use a lesson or two.

    I was simply relating my experience with an MBC on a particular model. Experience which not only I have had, but others have also. It is what happened to me, and with the process of elimination my only guide at the time (way before open/public forum tuning was available) it is what worked. You can refute it all you wish obi-wan, but sending inuendos is not the appropriate path for education. I'll admit when I am mistaken or not as knowledable as someone else, and will gladly accept instruction. It is not my intention to get into a an engine management slugfest with you as for one, e-thugging is a bit weak and tww, I recognize when I am carrying a knife in a gunfight.

    Now...if you wish to discuss nuclear theory or 21 points of instant disablement, I'd be more then willing to go toe to toe. For now...I'll just read on silently and admit I don't know ish
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
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    SOLD: 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited 5MT, 13.3ish@105 (stage 2) crappy stock clutch
    SOLD: 04 MPS/SW WRX Sti. 12.971 @ 103.97 (stock)
    278 AWHP/283 AWT, Catback exhaust
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    (Scott) Moderator-STi, Drag Racing, Car Purchasing, and Tutorial Forums

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