Any one running e85 or a mixture?
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This is a discussion on Any one running e85 or a mixture? within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Hey just wondering if any of you Guys were running e85 or a mixture of e40 or e50 on 2015+ ...

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    Any one running e85 or a mixture?

    Hey just wondering if any of you
    Guys were running e85 or a mixture of e40 or e50 on 2015+ wrx? I can't wait much longer on Cobb and their kit, I have several tuners down here in Denver saying they can tune for either or, but e50 is safer than pure 85

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    Registered User strudinox's Avatar
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    I'm also waiting for the COBB kit. I'm really hoping that an aftermarket HPFP is made before I really get serious about it. From what I've been reading, it does not like E85 long term, though a mixture such as E42 is generally safe, though the performance isn't as nearly there compared to E85.

    There are a bunch of threads over on NASIOC about members blowing they're HPFP resulting in engine stumbling after running E85 for a little as 1000 miles. A lot of people speculate that this is the reason why COBB is so hesitant to release the flex fuel kit for the 2015+ WRX until a long term solution is found.
    ...BECAUSE RALLY CAR

    Current Build: 2015 WRX Premium - WRB - Stage 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by strudinox View Post
    I'm also waiting for the COBB kit. I'm really hoping that an aftermarket HPFP is made before I really get serious about it. From what I've been reading, it does not like E85 long term, though a mixture such as E42 is generally safe, though the performance isn't as nearly there compared to E85.

    There are a bunch of threads over on NASIOC about members blowing they're HPFP resulting in engine stumbling after running E85 for a little as 1000 miles. A lot of people speculate that this is the reason why COBB is so hesitant to release the flex fuel kit for the 2015+ WRX until a long term solution is found.
    I will have to look into some of those threads, and I have spoke with Cobb and from what they and some of the pro tuners I have talked to told me what that they are holding off onto it because as of right now there is no aftermarket HPFP available for DIT Wrx. I talked to one protuner recently and he told me that they have ways that they can tune the car to make up for fuel pressure drops and such but it still seems sketchy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by breckiam View Post
    I will have to look into some of those threads, and I have spoke with Cobb and from what they and some of the pro tuners I have talked to told me what that they are holding off onto it because as of right now there is no aftermarket HPFP available for DIT Wrx. I talked to one protuner recently and he told me that they have ways that they can tune the car to make up for fuel pressure drops and such but it still seems sketchy.

    You never want to tune around a mechanical issue like a failing fuel pump.. it might run good for a little while, right before it blows up.

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    For External Use Only irickchad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breckiam View Post
    I can't wait much longer on Cobb and their kit

    Yes you can.
    I have an STi with an intake and no tune, I never change my oil, and my wheel spacerz are mad tyte.

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    I'm running a mixture currently. 3 gallons of 91 and the rest e85. I have a cobb big sf intake, invidia catless downpipe, invidia q300 back, 91 octane pro time and an e85 tune.
    My tuner said since I dont have an upgraded fuel pump I'll want toto run a mixture and to not run it extremely hard for long periods at a time. When tuning he had to keep dialing it back. The car was making 320WHP but he said without that fuel pump he was going to dial it back some.
    Its been a few weeks and everything is working amazingly!! The power is such an extreme differance than stock! He has me at a max boost of 20 for semi cooler weather and 18psi on hot days here in Arizona!

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    For External Use Only irickchad's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone want to run a mixture? It seems like there's too many variables, and it also seems like a crazy hassle for the average driver.
    I have an STi with an intake and no tune, I never change my oil, and my wheel spacerz are mad tyte.

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    As far as I know and have been told, the true benefits of ethanol aren't realized until you are at or above E70?? My go-to gas station has been consistently testing out at 75-80 and that is what I have been running on my 07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldspower71 View Post
    As far as I know and have been told, the true benefits of ethanol aren't realized until you are at or above E70?? My go-to gas station has been consistently testing out at 75-80 and that is what I have been running on my 07.
    This is what I thought as well. E85 is over 100 octane fuel.

    They've tested many mixtures to try to regulate emissions, mileage, etc. and below E85 it's pretty much useless corn juice.
    I have an STi with an intake and no tune, I never change my oil, and my wheel spacerz are mad tyte.

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    The high octane, detonation suppression benefits, and cooling properties of the fuel would all be diminished to some degree in a mixture with gasoline. I have read about people mixing, but mainly for knock suppression which you get with ethanol contents above 50ish if I remember right. A lot of guys in Australia do it, but they are mixing it with 98 RON over there.

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            MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irickchad View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone want to run a mixture? It seems like there's too many variables, and it also seems like a crazy hassle for the average driver.

    If you have flex fuel, why not? I mean, you're always going to be running a mixture, be it e10 93 octane, or e85... e30 will make more power, spool the turbo faster, and have greater knock resistance than e10.. e50, even more so. It's not like there's a magic percentage where you suddenly get the benefits of ethanol. If you look at the dyno graphs on flex fuel tuned cars it seems to scale fairly linearly. IE, the performance of e50 lies pretty much half way between e10 and e90.


    Without flex fuel it is more of a pain, especially here in TX where e85 has its own pump. You have to pump a certain number of gallons at one pump, then move the car down to another pump and top it off. I ran e30 for a while and I was able to nail the percentage +/-2% every time without too much trouble.. but it's not something I would ever recommend trying without having an ECA installed.

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    I agree that if you have flex-fuel its not a big deal. One of the best parts of flex-fuel is that you don't need to test every batch of E. What I'm saying is that in my opinion actually spending the money on a pro-tune for an E30 mixture probably isn't worth it. It would be interesting to see numbers but I would think that an E30 mix would maybe turn a tank of 91 octane into 93-94ish. It just seems like a lot to go through for a small benefit. I really dont understand it tbh....maybe people don't want to spend the $$ to do a full E85 setup with injectors/pump?? But for those that are waiting for flex-fuel, you're gonna have to do it anyway eventually. MainFrame, I'm in the same boat as you in IL where E85 has its own pump. It takes forever testing and filling as it is without having to move the car to another pump lol. It's really funny to see some of the looks you get when testing.....like you're making a bomb or something. I'm thinking of getting a white lab coat and thick-frame glasses to wear when filling up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldspower71 View Post
    It would be interesting to see numbers but I would think that an E30 mix would maybe turn a tank of 91 octane into 93-94ish. It just seems like a lot to go through for a small benefit. I really dont understand it tbh....maybe people don't want to spend the $$ to do a full E85 setup with injectors/pump?? .. It takes forever testing and filling as it is without having to move the car to another pump lol..

    The octane isn't really that important. Ethanol had different properties than gasoline, it burns cooler, produces a greater volume of exhaust, and is more knock resistant than gasoline. I agree, it's probably not worth paying for a separate tune.. but running e30 had my turbo spooling 600rpm earlier than it did with e07 (which is what most 93 octane comes out to in my experience). And I was able to run it on my 93 octane tune without any issues.

    One of the big reasons to run a lower percentage than 85% is if your fuel pump is designed to be lubricated by the fuel. Gasoline has lots of lubricants added to it, where as ethanol does not. If you own a 2015+ WRX with direct injection then you're stuck with the stock HPFP since there are no aftermarket options currently available.. and the stock HPFP is supposed to be lubricated by the fuel. People running straight e85 or higher ethanol concentrations are starting to experience HPFP failures from not being properly lubricated.. and a fuel pump failure WOT can easily result in catastrophic engine failure. Running lower concentrations is easier on the fuel pump, while still retaining some of the benefits of ethanol.


    As far as testing goes, it only takes me about 3 seconds.. all I have to do is turn the key and my ECA tells me the exact percentage within a matter of seconds.

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