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This is a discussion on CAI within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; hey guys looking to get a cold air intake for my 04 wrx and figured id ask what yall recommended? ...

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    CAI

    hey guys looking to get a cold air intake for my 04 wrx and figured id ask what yall recommended? ive had K&N on my past cars

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    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    Not many people on here will recommend cold air intakes. Just remember, If you get a new intake you'll need a tune.

    It depends on your power level whether or not it will be worth it. What are your mods and where do you plan to go? The best cold air intake is the stock one, no joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckingball man View Post
    Not many people on here will recommend cold air intakes. Just remember, If you get a new intake you'll need a tune.

    It depends on your power level whether or not it will be worth it. What are your mods and where do you plan to go? The best cold air intake is the stock one, no joke.

    Cobb website

    Calibrations All aftermarket intakes for 08+ Subarus require tuning in order to ensure the MAF sensor reads properly and the engine operates within safe parameters. COBB Tuning has you covered with Off-The-Shelf Maps for the Accessport, making it as easy as install, flash and go! Head over to the Subaru Accessport Map Database to view the full selection of SF Intake Maps for your vehicle.
    Says only on 08+ does it require a retune..

    On your model you could get say a CObb intake and it would be fine.. That's according to the website..
    COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake and SF Airbox Kit

    COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake and SF Airbox Kit

    Only an 08 up would require a tune .. I would stay away from CAIs just because the risk of sucking up water is greater..

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    Man I installed INJEN CAI (wrong choice!) , but because I use AP COBB V3, stage 1 map, I had to buy COBB CAI, so in a couple of days I will be replacing my intake again!

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    Well, for the most part you guys are right. Most cai's will require a tune after install. However, Perrin claims that their CAI will work fine without issues on stock tune due the placement of the maf in their tubing. To be honest, I was skeptical. I pulled the trigger on one for my 08 wrx back in the day. No issues what so ever with the AFR, or CEL's. So i was convinced. I just purchased one for my 11 wrx a few weeks ago. Been on for over 2 weeks now. No issues again. The sound is awesome, it was a cheaper part and will help net some gains later on down the road with the power mods i plan on doing in the near future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRX-maniac View Post
    Well, for the most part you guys are right. Most cai's will require a tune after install. However, Perrin claims that their CAI will work fine without issues on stock tune due the placement of the maf in their tubing. To be honest, I was skeptical. I pulled the trigger on one for my 08 wrx back in the day. No issues what so ever with the AFR, or CEL's. So i was convinced. I just purchased one for my 11 wrx a few weeks ago. Been on for over 2 weeks now. No issues again. The sound is awesome, it was a cheaper part and will help net some gains later on down the road with the power mods i plan on doing in the near future.
    Yea.. Check out the facts before the misinformation..

    As stated if your car is an 08+ that's where they say you need a tune according to say COBB.. Before 08 there is 0 tune required for an intake.. But if you want to get the max out of it of course you would get a tune.

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    Bugeyes don't need a tune. Anything after them I would definitely recommend it, even if the manufacturer says you don't need it.

    I'll trust the guys who've tuned these cars and seen what's going on when aftermarket intakes are installed versus the ones who want to sell me a filter and some pipes. I'm sure one of them will eventually make their way in this thread to explain the more technical details.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dat8687 View Post
    Yea.. Check out the facts before the misinformation..

    As stated if your car is an 08+ that's where they say you need a tune according to say COBB.. Before 08 there is 0 tune required for an intake.. But if you want to get the max out of it of course you would get a tune.
    So then YOU should consider not spreading misinformation!

    Let's start with the fundamentals shall we? What intake an intake? It is the interface between ambient pressure and the lower-pressure "vacuum" in the engine manifold (in Forced Induction, prior to the compressor). The intake has little to do with mapping of the car's ECU in a fundamental sense. Instead, there are two components that may necessitate re-mapping of the car's ECU when an aftermarket intake is installed:

    1. Flow of charge around the MAF sensor
    2. Freeing large intake restriction placing car in higher (untuned) load cells

    In a MAF-fueled arrangement, the MAF sensor attempts to estimate the total mass of air flowing into the engine by correlating the reading at ONE POINT with the total cross-sectional area. This relationship is determined by a process called "MAFv tuning." If the relationship between the MAFv and the actual mass airflow changes, the car will no longer fuel optimally. This relationship may change due to a larger-diameter MAF housing or due to changing airflow characteristics within the intake piping. CAIs are notorious for causing changes in the airflow characteristics primarily due to the bend in the piping immediately prior to the MAF housing. This is why CAI install is rarely recommended without a proper tune. Some intakes like the GD Cobb SF intake contain air-straighteners to mimic the stock airflow characteristics. These intakes are considered "safe" for the stock tune.

    If the intake is a significant restriction (may be the case on the 2008+ LGT style intake), freeing up that restriction may allow the car to hit higher load cells under WOT. In the ECU mapping, the car's timing and fueling are tuned for specific load and RPM ranges (this is a bit different with the "requested torque" CANbus logic, but applicable in a broad sense). If the car enters load cells out of this range, the ECU will attempt to extrapolate the proper timing and fueling, which may not always be effective. In some circumstances, this may damage the motor.

    I hope that you will see that the relationship between installing an intake and tuning the car isn't so black-and-white as "2008+ need a tune and 2002-2007 don't need a tune." Instead, it comes down to the design of the intake in every way functional. I can design an intake that will work on the stock tune on a 2008+ WRX. Likewise, I can design an intake that will destroy a GD motor if running the stock tune. Frankly, I have personally seen how poor the stock ECU mapping is on the stock airbox. If it were me, I would custom-map any intake on any car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dat8687 View Post
    Yea.. Check out the facts before the misinformation..

    As stated if your car is an 08+ that's where they say you need a tune according to say COBB.. Before 08 there is 0 tune required for an intake.. But if you want to get the max out of it of course you would get a tune.
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    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dat8687 View Post
    Yea.. Check out the facts before the misinformation..

    As stated if your car is an 08+ that's where they say you need a tune according to say COBB.. Before 08 there is 0 tune required for an intake.. But if you want to get the max out of it of course you would get a tune.
    oh well duh, what was I thinking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    So then YOU should consider not spreading misinformation!

    Let's start with the fundamentals shall we? What intake an intake? It is the interface between ambient pressure and the lower-pressure "vacuum" in the engine manifold (in Forced Induction, prior to the compressor). The intake has little to do with mapping of the car's ECU in a fundamental sense. Instead, there are two components that may necessitate re-mapping of the car's ECU when an aftermarket intake is installed:

    1. Flow of charge around the MAF sensor
    2. Freeing large intake restriction placing car in higher (untuned) load cells

    In a MAF-fueled arrangement, the MAF sensor attempts to estimate the total mass of air flowing into the engine by correlating the reading at ONE POINT with the total cross-sectional area. This relationship is determined by a process called "MAFv tuning." If the relationship between the MAFv and the actual mass airflow changes, the car will no longer fuel optimally. This relationship may change due to a larger-diameter MAF housing or due to changing airflow characteristics within the intake piping. CAIs are notorious for causing changes in the airflow characteristics primarily due to the bend in the piping immediately prior to the MAF housing. This is why CAI install is rarely recommended without a proper tune. Some intakes like the GD Cobb SF intake contain air-straighteners to mimic the stock airflow characteristics. These intakes are considered "safe" for the stock tune.

    If the intake is a significant restriction (may be the case on the 2008+ LGT style intake), freeing up that restriction may allow the car to hit higher load cells under WOT. In the ECU mapping, the car's timing and fueling are tuned for specific load and RPM ranges (this is a bit different with the "requested torque" CANbus logic, but applicable in a broad sense). If the car enters load cells out of this range, the ECU will attempt to extrapolate the proper timing and fueling, which may not always be effective. In some circumstances, this may damage the motor.

    I hope that you will see that the relationship between installing an intake and tuning the car isn't so black-and-white as "2008+ need a tune and 2002-2007 don't need a tune." Instead, it comes down to the design of the intake in every way functional. I can design an intake that will work on the stock tune on a 2008+ WRX. Likewise, I can design an intake that will destroy a GD motor if running the stock tune. Frankly, I have personally seen how poor the stock ECU mapping is on the stock airbox. If it were me, I would custom-map any intake on any car.
    You just repeated what I stated.. 02-07s don't require a tune with an intake.. I was simply quoting Cobb

    Cobb website

    Calibrations All aftermarket intakes for 08+ Subarus require tuning in order to ensure the MAF sensor reads properly and the engine operates within safe parameters. COBB Tuning has you covered with Off-The-Shelf Maps for the Accessport, making it as easy as install, flash and go! Head over to the Subaru Accessport Map Database to view the full selection of SF Intake Maps for your vehicle.
    Says only on 08+ does it require a retune..


    COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake and SF Airbox Kit

    COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake and SF Airbox Kit

    Only an 08 up would require a tune ...

    If cobb is lying?.. You need to let them know as well as other tuners/manufacturers since you know more than them.
    Last edited by Dat8687; 10-10-2013 at 11:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckingball man View Post
    oh well duh, what was I thinking?
    lol.. Just breaking your bawls.. I keed I keed.. Jk

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    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dat8687 View Post
    You just repeated what I stated.. 02-07s don't require a tune with an intake.. I was simply quoting Cobb

    Cobb website



    Says only on 08+ does it require a retune..


    COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake and SF Airbox Kit

    COBB Tuning - Subaru SF Intake and SF Airbox Kit

    Only an 08 up would require a tune ...

    If cobb is lying?.. You need to let them know as well as other tuners/manufacturers since you know more than them.
    Important to take note that on their website when you look at maps and their intake for 02-07, they never say that you don't have to tune for intakes for those years. Only that you don't have to tune for their intake. There's a difference.

    As far as whether you should always trust aftermarket companies in their claims, I'ma leave this here:
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2468443
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