First mod - now where
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This is a discussion on First mod - now where within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Happy to finally say I got my turbo back exhaust fitted onto my stock (well, previously stock!) 02 bugeye STI ...

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    First mod - now where

    Happy to finally say I got my turbo back exhaust fitted onto my stock (well, previously stock!) 02 bugeye STI - and I went with an invidia (with single Q300 not canon). I honestly could not be happier with the sound, the look and performance. From the back it looks almost exactly like the stock STI system. The sound... it has a perfect rumble that unleashes when you want it to, but isn't over the top. I haven't even gotten a tune done yet, and the power difference is pretty crazy...(and the turbo kicks in at about 3000/3500 revs not 4).
    before I get a tune however im keen on another upgrade...
    I was thinking a bigger turbo? although would I need to get a better intercooler to support this upgrade?

    If anyone has done this, know some good manufacturers/types or just got some good info pls comment.
    when love of power... overcomes the power of STi, the world will see peace

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    Sammich Makin' Pwincess wrxtreme06's Avatar
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    congrats on your TBE

    as far as a bigger turbo, you cant just slap it on. you more than likely will need injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, etc.


    i would probably just stick with stage 2 for now. if you get bored with it later on down the road, then worry about upgrading the turbo

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    thanks.

    yeah I thought so...so if I get a tune now (with just TBE upgrade) - would I see even further noticeable power gain?

    also...I have a leak in my gasket (on the uppipe connecting to the turbo) - if I fixed this with a new uppipe, could this provide any more power?

    Thanks
    when love of power... overcomes the power of STi, the world will see peace

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    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    YES! you will see a large difference with a tune, especially a dyno tune. <--(edit)tune method dosn't matter, usually dyno is safest and more thorough, but not the absolute "best." That was a bad comment.

    The stock ECU will begin to adapt to your new exhaust however, and eventually you will run the same as you did stock because it has set parameters that are programed into it and will make adjustments when the engine deviates from these parameters.

    In layman's terms, you will not see the benefit of your mods unless you get a tune. And yes, you should fix exhaust leaks, especially pre-turbo.
    Last edited by wreckingball man; 06-10-2013 at 06:01 AM.

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    Awesome! I want the best tune - hows dyno tune the best? (long story short :P ) and im assuming a regular tuner can do this?

    I don't have a cat pre turbo on my up pipe because mines an STI and only comes with 1 cat...
    but yes I was thinking just replace the uppipe anyways to fix the leak - but I wont need tune for this right?
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    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    Here's a few good stickies about tuning:
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1579369
    Engine Management FAQ: Read if you are thinking of buying one! - NASIOC

    I would just replace the gasket if it's already catless. No sense in buying a new upipe.

    The 02-03 models have a pretty adaptable ECU, so you don't necessarily need a tune. However, It's highly advised, and like I already said you wont see the benefits without it.

    These are great threads for any other questions you might have and a good place to start researching.
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533787

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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckingball man View Post
    The 02-03 models have a pretty adaptable ECU, so you don't necessarily need a tune. However, It's highly advised, and like I already said you wont see the benefits without it.

    Are you sure this applies to non-USDM STi models? In most cases they're a year or two ahead of us.. I would expect the ECU on his 02 STi to be more similar to the ECU on an 04-05 USDM STi (I do not know for sure though).


    And yes, 90% of the power comes from the tune. A dyno tune isn't inherently better than a road tune. Being on the dyno does allow for safer logging than doing 100+mph pulls on the road though.. in most cases you will get the best results of dyno, and then a road tune to finish up. Tuning on the dyno does not load the car up the same as on the street, and air flow is drastically different as well.. you're always going to want some portion of your tune done in real world conditions.

    I second just replacing the uppipe gasket rather than the whole uppipe.. sounds like a waste of money. You could get some gains from and aftermarket uppipe after tuning for it, but it wouldn't be much.

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    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrxtreme06 View Post
    congrats on your TBE

    as far as a bigger turbo, you cant just slap it on. you more than likely will need injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, etc.


    i would probably just stick with stage 2 for now. if you get bored with it later on down the road, then worry about upgrading the turbo
    This. EJ207 were released with STi "Pink" injectors which are 565cc/min injectors. You will easily max these injectors out on the stock VF30 turbo, much less a larger turbo. Any turbocharger upgrade should be paired with proper injectors with sufficient electrical headroom.

    As far as your TMIC... the stock TMIC on the V7 STi was slightly larger than the TMIC on the USDM GD STi. In fact, per my understanding, it's nearly the same unit that is used on the 2008+ USDM STi. As such, it's a decent unit, but an aftermarket TMIC (even a smaller bar-and-plate unit) will have a lower pressure drop and a considerable bump in thermal efficiency. It would be a good modification for you paired with injectors and a fuel pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    Are you sure this applies to non-USDM STi models? In most cases they're a year or two ahead of us.. I would expect the ECU on his 02 STi to be more similar to the ECU on an 04-05 USDM STi (I do not know for sure though).
    I agree with Robin on this. I believe the EJ207 ECU uses the 32 bit architecture (pre CANbus) that the USDM 2004-2007 STi utilizes. The USDM EJ205 uses the 16 bit architecture of the older EJ20k, to which you are referring.
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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    I believe the EJ207 ECU uses the 32 bit architecture (pre CANbus) that the USDM 2004-2007 STi utilizes.


    And if that's the case, OP shouldn't even be driving the car with an aftermarket TBE before getting it tuned.

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    Wow, so much info! ))
    Looks like a good idea for me to leave turbo for now, if I'm going to get even more gains than what I saw straight after the TBE fitting.
    I have heard a good tuning place so I will see them tomorrow and see what they recommend.
    I didn't know you can replace just the gasket? But awesome that's a good op!

    I'm not sure what you guys are talking about in relation to the ecu and tuning but my mechanic deffs said my car is SWEET to run without tune (even tho ill get one tomoz)
    when love of power... overcomes the power of STi, the world will see peace

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    so hopefully no damage is done I've done about 30 mins worth of driving since fitting...
    when love of power... overcomes the power of STi, the world will see peace

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    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    Thanks for clearing up the ECU info Zax and Mainframe. Interesting to know.

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    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorecki-STI View Post
    I'm not sure what you guys are talking about in relation to the ecu and tuning but my mechanic deffs said my car is SWEET to run without tune (even tho ill get one tomoz)
    That's what you got out of this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    That's what you got out of this?
    haha excuse my noobness...I am still going through all this ECU terminology!
    when love of power... overcomes the power of STi, the world will see peace

  16. #15
    Registered User wreckingball man's Avatar
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    Straight from one of the links I gave you:
    Do I need engine management with an exhaust? For 02/03 WRX and STI users, no.
    --Big Ron, Unabomber's manifesto: Exhaust FAQ

    A short answer obviously. You'll have to research if you want to know the exact answers as to why.

    So, an even shorter answer: According to what I've read (from the source above), you don't necessarily NEED a tune for your specific car with the installation of the turbo-back exhaust, but it is beneficial and recommended for the longevity and health of your car. You will also not see the benefits in Hp without the tune.
    Last edited by wreckingball man; 06-10-2013 at 05:52 AM.

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