Equal Length Header Question
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

This is a discussion on Equal Length Header Question within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I'm currently in the market to purchase and equal length header for my 2011 WRX (perrin vs invidia) and had ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Wussola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    183

    Equal Length Header Question

    I'm currently in the market to purchase and equal length header for my 2011 WRX (perrin vs invidia) and had a couple questions:

    1. I read on Cygnus Performance website that the Perrin equal length header on 06+ WRX's required modification of the oil cooler. I have not read this anywhere else (manufacture's website or other review forums). Has anyone else heard of this? or anyone who installed perrin headers had to do this?

    2. The Perrin header allows you to retain the stock splash guard with out any modifications. Do you know if the Invidia does as well?

    Thanks!
    2011 Subaru Impreza WRX (Premium) | EFI Logics Tuned Stage 3 | Cobb SF CAI | Invidia EL Race Header | Cobb Catted Downpipe | Borla CBE | PW TMIC | Grimmspeed EBCS | Grimmspeed AOS | DW 65C Fuel Pump | Grimmspeed Light Weight Pulley | SPT Short Shifter | JNA Front Lip | EPIC Performance Springs | SMY Cluster w/ Boost & Oil Pressure

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Registered User maus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,110
    You don't need to make any modifications to fit the Perrin header. Invidia headers will fit fine.
    2012 DGM 5 DOOR WRX
    Mods: Stage 2+
    "I live my life a twelve year old at a time. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free."
    Official ClubWRX Creeper

  4. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Webster, MA
    Posts
    254
    Yup, installed my perrin ELHs a few weeks ago. It was incredibly easy (get new gaskets at the motor and at the uppipe).

    I know the perrin lets you keep the stock splashguard. I cannot speak for the invidia, but I'd be shocked if it didn't.

    The oil filter modification is only required on older WRXs, (I thought 2003-2005) but I'm not sure the exact years. With a newer WRX, you'll be fine.

    Our mod paths aren't that far apart, and you aren't even that far from me, so if you are ever in my area, feel free to come by and look at the install. I'll jack the car up and let you climb under it and everything. I'm friendly like that.
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 05-23-2013 at 08:11 AM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  5. #4
    Registered User Wussola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by TankerTruck View Post

    Our mod paths aren't that far apart, and you aren't even that far from me, so if you are ever in my area, feel free to come by and look at the install. I'll jack the car up and let you climb under it and everything. I'm friendly like that.
    I appreciate that! Maybe that website got their years confused ...

    Just out of curiosity, why did you choose the Perrin headers?

    Also, are you going to the Wicked Big Meet?
    2011 Subaru Impreza WRX (Premium) | EFI Logics Tuned Stage 3 | Cobb SF CAI | Invidia EL Race Header | Cobb Catted Downpipe | Borla CBE | PW TMIC | Grimmspeed EBCS | Grimmspeed AOS | DW 65C Fuel Pump | Grimmspeed Light Weight Pulley | SPT Short Shifter | JNA Front Lip | EPIC Performance Springs | SMY Cluster w/ Boost & Oil Pressure

  6. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Webster, MA
    Posts
    254
    Well, lets start here:

    I chose the perrin headers for a couple of reasons: I've had very good 'luck' with the products in the past, and their customer service. That's huge to me, running a small business. Also, they said that they made & sized these headers & midpipe for the stock turbo to build midrange without losing top end power- and I don't really want to modify the turbo (well, not unless I build the motor), so that made a lot of sense to me. Both Eric at TP and Bren at Bren Tuning said to go with the Tomei. The Killer-B ones are beautiful. Shrug. They both said it came down to personal choice honestly, and price.

    So, what does it do to your power band? Well, I would say don't pay attention to the overall numbers from this Virtual dyno graph, since the weather wasn't anywhere near close so you can't compare (one was 40 degrees, and the header was 80 degrees with 90% humidity), but you can get an idea of what the headers do to the boost curves and the hp/tq curves (vs TP stage 2 and TP stage 3, back to back). Basically, you get a slightly bumped midrange (and slightly better spool - 250 rpms maybe?) in favor of a drop off at the other end. I haven't had it dyno tuned yet to work out the kinks, but they are all Eric's tunes from TP.



    So am I happy with it... I'm not 100% sure, honestly. I wish I had back to back runs with similar weather to compare dyno runs, but I don't. It screams from -10 psi up to about 5 psi (it's noticeably quicker), but then it seems to settle in nicely like the stock headers did. It feels faster on the butt dyno, but after all this I think the stock headers we pretty decent honestly. I'm looking to get a second opinion from Bren before deciding what to do for the dyno tune. I didn't wrap them (no warrantee if I do), but I might.

    I expect to be at the WBM - I might have a 4 year old daughter or 3 year old son with me, but I want to go. Plus, I'm looking forward to meeting a bunch of new people! Drop me a PM and I'll shoot you my cell number to call if you end up going.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  7. #6
    Registered User MainFrame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    7,576
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by TankerTruck View Post
    The oil filter modification is only required on older WRXs, (I thought 2003-2005) but I'm not sure the exact years. With a newer WRX, you'll be fine.


    My 2002 did not require any modification to the oil filter (should be the same 02-05).

  8. #7
    Registered User Wussola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by TankerTruck View Post
    I chose the perrin headers for a couple of reasons: I've had very good 'luck' with the products in the past, and their customer service. That's huge to me, running a small business. Also, they said that they made & sized these headers & midpipe for the stock turbo to build midrange without losing top end power- and I don't really want to modify the turbo (well, not unless I build the motor), so that made a lot of sense to me. Both Eric at TP and Bren at Bren Tuning said to go with the Tomei. The Killer-B ones are beautiful. Shrug. They both said it came down to personal choice honestly, and price.
    Thank you! I appreciate the time you took in your response.

    I ended up calling my tuner (EFI Logic) and had a fairly in-depth conversation with them. They highly recommended that I go with the Invidia system. Since they have plenty of experience tuning with the system and seem to get good results ... that is what I ended up going with. I'll follow up and let you know what I think after the install and tune. Unfortunately, I won't have a before and after dyno test since I'll be installing the header before I get the tune. Also, I'll be changing from a 93 octane tune to a 91 octane tune in preparation for my relocation to Maine for work come July - so it would not be a very good comparison anyway. That is actually why I'm interested in the header ... to try and re-coop some performance with the drop in octane ...

    I'll definitely be at the WBM (already have my tickets). I'll drop you a PM. I'll be attending with my wife (also a car enthusiast) and a friend with a 2011 STI. Should be a good time!
    2011 Subaru Impreza WRX (Premium) | EFI Logics Tuned Stage 3 | Cobb SF CAI | Invidia EL Race Header | Cobb Catted Downpipe | Borla CBE | PW TMIC | Grimmspeed EBCS | Grimmspeed AOS | DW 65C Fuel Pump | Grimmspeed Light Weight Pulley | SPT Short Shifter | JNA Front Lip | EPIC Performance Springs | SMY Cluster w/ Boost & Oil Pressure

  9. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Md
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by TankerTruck View Post
    Yup, installed my perrin ELHs a few weeks ago. It was incredibly easy (get new gaskets at the motor and at the uppipe).

    I know the perrin lets you keep the stock splashguard. I cannot speak for the invidia, but I'd be shocked if it didn't.

    The oil filter modification is only required on older WRXs, (I thought 2003-2005) but I'm not sure the exact years. With a newer WRX, you'll be fine.

    Our mod paths aren't that far apart, and you aren't even that far from me, so if you are ever in my area, feel free to come by and look at the install. I'll jack the car up and let you climb under it and everything. I'm friendly like that.
    Glad to hear that! I'll likely look in that direction when/if I ever get money again lol.
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

  10. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Md
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Wussola View Post
    Thank you! I appreciate the time you took in your response.

    I ended up calling my tuner (EFI Logic) and had a fairly in-depth conversation with them. They highly recommended that I go with the Invidia system. Since they have plenty of experience tuning with the system and seem to get good results ... that is what I ended up going with. I'll follow up and let you know what I think after the install and tune. Unfortunately, I won't have a before and after dyno test since I'll be installing the header before I get the tune. Also, I'll be changing from a 93 octane tune to a 91 octane tune in preparation for my relocation to Maine for work come July - so it would not be a very good comparison anyway. That is actually why I'm interested in the header ... to try and re-coop some performance with the drop in octane ...

    I'll definitely be at the WBM (already have my tickets). I'll drop you a PM. I'll be attending with my wife (also a car enthusiast) and a friend with a 2011 STI. Should be a good time!
    That sucks!

    BTW, what kind of dyno were you tuned on? Your numbers seem low for your mods no?
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

  11. #10
    Registered User Wussola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u View Post
    That sucks!

    BTW, what kind of dyno were you tuned on? Your numbers seem low for your mods no?

    I agree ... I'm definitely not happy with the drop in octane Maine also does not carry E85. I thought about meth injection; however, consulting my tuner ... they said that they try to steer clients away from it for longevity/reliability issues. So I'm stuck with crapy gas.

    My car was tuned at EFI logics on a mustang dyno ... I hear they call the dyno the "widow-maker" because it tends to read low in comparison to other dynos. I did notice when I looked at Cobb's dyno database that other cars with similar mods read higher WHP/WTQ. However, as you know all dyno's and even the same dyno's on different days produces different numbers.

    What I can tell you is the car goes like hell and is super fun to drive!
    Last edited by Wussola; 05-25-2013 at 07:47 PM.
    2011 Subaru Impreza WRX (Premium) | EFI Logics Tuned Stage 3 | Cobb SF CAI | Invidia EL Race Header | Cobb Catted Downpipe | Borla CBE | PW TMIC | Grimmspeed EBCS | Grimmspeed AOS | DW 65C Fuel Pump | Grimmspeed Light Weight Pulley | SPT Short Shifter | JNA Front Lip | EPIC Performance Springs | SMY Cluster w/ Boost & Oil Pressure

  12. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Md
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Wussola View Post
    I agree ... I'm definitely not happy with the drop in octane Maine also does not carry E85. I thought about meth injection; however, consulting my tuner ... they said that they try to steer clients away from it for longevity/reliability issues. So I'm stuck with crapy gas.

    My car was tuned at EFI logics on a mustang dyno ... I hear they call the dyno the "widow-maker" because it tends to read low in comparison to other dynos. I did notice when I looked at Cobb's dyno database that other cars with similar mods read higher WHP/WTQ. However, as you know all dyno's and even the same dyno's on different days produces different numbers.

    What I can tell you is the car goes like hell and is super fun to drive!
    I'd like to get a real protune, but I need a BPV because mine leaks badly at peak boost, the GS tumblers, and ELH and then be done. With all of the same mods that you have (engine wise) except for the pulley, I wonder what kind of power I could squeeze out the car with those last few mods and a pro-tune. I'd guess I would need a set of injectors too though.

    BTW, E85 is 45 minutes in either direction from me, so I understand the feeling and soon i've heard all places will be switching to 91 oct. after a while.
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

  13. #12
    Registered User Wussola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u View Post
    I'd like to get a real protune, but I need a BPV because mine leaks badly at peak boost, the GS tumblers, and ELH and then be done. With all of the same mods that you have (engine wise) except for the pulley, I wonder what kind of power I could squeeze out the car with those last few mods and a pro-tune. I'd guess I would need a set of injectors too though.

    BTW, E85 is 45 minutes in either direction from me, so I understand the feeling and soon i've heard all places will be switching to 91 oct. after a while.
    Yes, a pro-tune is the way to go. I would suggest that next you add a PW TMIC, better BOV, 3-port EBCS, and a fuel pump (injectors are not needed at this level). Those modifications, following a pro-tune, will turn your car into a monster. It was night and day for me going from a Cobb OTC stage 2 tune to what I am now.

    Regarding the pulley ... I can't say much for quicker RPM's, because I had it added with all the other stage 3 modificiations (especially the EBCS). I do hear a lot of people talk about rough idle on the subie's. Since I added the pulley my car purrs like a kitten at idle and it's not very noticeable when the air conditioner compressor kicks on and off. So I like it.
    2011 Subaru Impreza WRX (Premium) | EFI Logics Tuned Stage 3 | Cobb SF CAI | Invidia EL Race Header | Cobb Catted Downpipe | Borla CBE | PW TMIC | Grimmspeed EBCS | Grimmspeed AOS | DW 65C Fuel Pump | Grimmspeed Light Weight Pulley | SPT Short Shifter | JNA Front Lip | EPIC Performance Springs | SMY Cluster w/ Boost & Oil Pressure

  14. #13
    Registered User Wussola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    183
    Just an update ...

    I purchased the Invidia EL race header. I installed it this past Tuesday and it was a pretty straight forward install. I was happy because the holes on the flanges match up perfectly with the studs on the heads (I didn't have to pull or stretch them to fit as I had read in other posts). So in terms of the part ... I was impressed with the quality and fitment. On that alone, I would highly recommend the Invidia EL race header! Here's a pic to see the craftsmanship.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	photo(30).jpg 
Views:	88 
Size:	111.5 KB 
ID:	114421

    So what were the results??? This is where the EL header really shinned. The day after installing the headers, I drove down to EFI logics to get the WRX tuned to 91 Octane and have a 30K service done. Since I had the new headers on and a tank full of pure 91 octane gas (on a 93 octane tune) - I drove the entire way (2 hrs) making sure that I did not go into boost. I reached 28 MPG!! ... eco cars eat your heart out. When I got to EFI Logic and they were setting my car up on the dyno, I had a pretty in depth discussion with their new tuner "Mikey." During that conversation, he mentioned that typically changing to 91 octane from 93 octane one would loose approx. 20 HP and 30 TQ - my heart sunk. Then he mentioned with the EL header install - I should gain approx. 10 hp and 15ish TQ back. We'll just say that I was not ecstatic hearing those potential results. So the dyno started and I was out side enjoying the 70 degree day and being surrounded by tuned WRXs and STIs ... trying not to think about the loss of performance that was coming.

    After pulling about 4 runs, Mikey came out and got me. He asked if I was sure that the tank was full of 91 Octane. I looked at him kinda of strange and he said that with every run the car was making more and more HP & TQ, more than he normally sees on 91 octane and surpassing my 93 tune done in November (the results where in their computer). I explained to him that I ran the tank down to approx 1/2 gallon, added 2-3 gallons of 91, ran it down again and then filled it up with 91 octane that morning. Then I got scared that maybe perhaps I put 93 in that morning out of habit (but remember distinctly pressing the "91" button). Luckily, I had the sale receipt in my pocket and confirmed 91 octane. He smiled and went back and did two more pulls. After he took the car off the dyno, he came up to me and said "ok, lets go for a road test." This also surprised me, no one had every done this before after a dyno tune. So we went for a ride with his lap top still connected to my ECU. I did a couple short pulls and he confirmed his hard work was consistent in the "real word" dyno. To me this just showed Mikey's dedication to his work. Just to ensure every thing is copacetic, he told me that once I fill up with 91 octane again to log a pull with my AccessPORT and email him the results.

    Overall, I'm down approx. 4 HP (max) and up 36 TQ (max). However, if you look at the dyno graph comparing my old 93 tune (dotted lines) to my new 91 tune (solid lines) you'll see that I'm up approx 40 HP and 40 TQ from 3500 RPM to 5000 RPM!!!! (note: don't look at final numbers ... this dyno is know for producing really low numbers compared to other dynos).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Scan_Pic0003.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	85.3 KB 
ID:	114413

    The results are amazing and definitely put a smile on my face! Mikey thought that maybe the results had in part to due with the 93 tune being run a little lean if you compare the AFRs. In addition, it is such a better tune. The cars drivability increased 20 fold. Previously, anything beyond a 1/4 throttle and my car immediately made full boost. This also resulted in horrible waste-gate flutter when ever I tried to speed up a little. The new tune has a perfect linear association between throttle position and boost production. Meaning that if I depress the throttle 50% then I make approx. 50% max boost. My waste-gate flutter is gone, which was a very welcome surprise since I thought that it was a guaranteed side effect of having an EBCS and high boost. All-in-all, my car is much more enjoyable to drive now and I am ecstatic that I actually make more usable HP and TQ on this new tune! The real life results of this ... if I'm cruising on the highway at 65MPH and downshift into 4th with WOT - I am immediately rocketed to 100 MPH. It pulls so hard that it actually scared me a little at first ... but that feeling was very quickly replaced with a smile!

    As for the EL header, above pretty much speaks for the performance benefits from it. In addition to that, the car runs much smoother. Previously, when getting on the throttle the car actually shook/vibrated pretty vigorously with the acceleration of unequal exhaust gas pressure. Now, it's hard to explain, but when you get on the throttle - it does spool quicker and is very smooth. Also, the horrible drone I had on the highway dissipated. The only negative part is that I do miss the boxer rumble. I have a Borla CBE and previously it gave a very deep, throaty sound. Now, I hate to say it, but it does sound very honda/ricey ... ish. I'm not a big fan of the new sound, but with the performance benefits and the added safety of the engine (equal pressure in all cylinders) ... I'll learn to like it.

    Final Recs:
    100% recommend installing an EL header (especially Invidia race header)
    110% recommend EFI Logics and the tuner Mikey
    Last edited by Wussola; 06-07-2013 at 01:02 PM.
    2011 Subaru Impreza WRX (Premium) | EFI Logics Tuned Stage 3 | Cobb SF CAI | Invidia EL Race Header | Cobb Catted Downpipe | Borla CBE | PW TMIC | Grimmspeed EBCS | Grimmspeed AOS | DW 65C Fuel Pump | Grimmspeed Light Weight Pulley | SPT Short Shifter | JNA Front Lip | EPIC Performance Springs | SMY Cluster w/ Boost & Oil Pressure

  15. #14
    Registered User D's WRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    116
    Awesome write up man, can't wait to get the money together for an ELH, will definitely be my next mod.

  16. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Webster, MA
    Posts
    254
    I got pro-tuned yesterday too! It was on a dynopak about 100 miles away, so it's not exactly the same, but I'll put my graph up here too, once I get it all set up, so you can see the similarities in shape between the perrin and the invidia headers - obviously exact numbers won't matter much being on different dynos, but the shapes look pretty close, even with the 2 (sort of) peaks for the torque curve. This makes sense considering the cars are basically the same with power mods.

    I'm really glad EFI worked out for you, too! I contacted them once and they never returned my call - but I've only ever heard good things about them.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •