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This is a discussion on Looking into ELH and a Pro-Tune. within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I don't trust myself to get them enough information for a good tune. I'm 18, just got into the car ...

  1. #16
    Registered User Mike193's Avatar
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    I don't trust myself to get them enough information for a good tune. I'm 18, just got into the car scene a year ago, and this is my first car I'm modding, so I'd rather put it in someone elses hands then chance my STi

    Not to mention, who wouldn't want some dyno pics haha

    Please read the install part, I'm still unsure on this part of the mod. Is driving 2 hours on the headers im not tuned for going to be bad?
    Last edited by Mike193; 05-01-2013 at 04:33 AM.

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    Data logs are easy. The tuner tells you what to set for. And you just push the button to start and stop the log. U go out on a road, put it in 3rd and record from. 2500 to 6500. Then just email it. Not that I would discourage anybody from a dyno tune though. They ARE the best
    2013 WRX sedan - MODS = pretty much every bolt on besides a bigger turbo.

  4. #18
    Registered User Mike193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elblanco1987 View Post
    Data logs are easy. The tuner tells you what to set for. And you just push the button to start and stop the log. U go out on a road, put it in 3rd and record from. 2500 to 6500. Then just email it. Not that I would discourage anybody from a dyno tune though. They ARE the best
    I never ever mentioned an E-tune so I don't know why I'm trying to be convinced on one. I simply do not trust MYSELF to get the information gathered, to the company correctly. I have no computer besides a highschool laptop thats so blocked it doesn't have youtube..... who knows what may get lost due to blocking programs. It doesn't even accept an accessport, I needed to have my buddy who I bought my parts from load the maps onto my AP through his computer. That being said, I'm gettin a dyno tune.

    If you have any input on the situation of installing and then needing to drive roughly 2 hours, please leave your suggestions/comments.

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    Right, with E-Logging though, you really need an AFR gauge. I send videos of my gauge and the logs to Eric, and he uses that to tune. It's a bit painful at times to do it all, but we have developed a system that works.

    I used TP, and I like Eric, and I like the service he provides. However, from my understanding (and I'm not an expert at all), he tunes a certain way that some people call 'aggressive' in certain areas. So people don't always like him. On nasioc, I have heard a few people at stage 3 (or higher) complain about excessive knock with his maps, but at that stage you should have a dyno tune anyway, IMO. I'm doing this tune with Eric a bit as a service to him to see what the difference is between a dyno tune and his E-tune, to see if it really is worth the $500 for the dyno tune. I'm pretty sure it is, but I've always been curious. I think at stage 2 or less a dyno tune really isn't needed IMO, and Etunes are fine. Past that = dyno tune.

    I've also heard really good things about... Phadon? Something like that. I can't remember the name, but TP and they were the last two I was researching for my etune. But you are dynoing it, so lets get that header question answered:

    From my experience, after installing my Perrin headers last weekend, my normal daily driving was unaltered. I did drop from about a 10.8-11.0 to 11.2-11.4 on the AFR gauge under WOT while going into boost (i.e midrange, from 0psi - 10 psi) - that could be signifigant if you had a finely tuned map running a perfect AFR (mine was rich to begin with intentionally). I believe if you installed the headers on a good safe tune, you'd be safe driving it if you didn't get into boost on the drive. But again, an AFR gauge would be required to monitor this.

    But I would talk to the tuner you choose first, and see what they think. Without an uppipe install, the job is like 20 minutes start to finish on a lift. With the uppipe, it's decently longer (3 hours). Don't forget new gaskets too.

    And one more thing, in my opinion, if you are modding your car to this level, you need an AP to get logs once in a while, to make sure everything is fine. I don't believe a modded car at this level really is a set-it and forget-it type of thing, even with a dyno tune. I would invest in a cheap laptop from anywhere to help you do the monitoring/AP connection. Personally, if I couldn't afford to pay for a new motor in cash, I wouldn't modify my car at all - particularly if I was 18 - please be careful (see, that's 'daddy-mode' kicking in).
    Last edited by TankerTruck; 05-01-2013 at 05:18 AM.
    2013 DGM WRX - Perrin CAI | PW TMIC | Forge BPV | Cobb DP | GS EBCS | DW 65C Pump | Perrin ELH & Uppipe | NGK One-Step Colder | Bren ProTune
    Best Time (on 4.21.13): 12.26 sec @ 113 mph

  6. #20
    Registered User Mike193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankerTruck View Post
    Right, with E-Logging though, you really need an AFR gauge. I send videos of my gauge and the logs to Eric, and he uses that to tune. It's a bit painful at times to do it all, but we have developed a system that works.

    I used TP, and I like Eric, and I like the service he provides. However, from my understanding (and I'm not an expert at all), he tunes a certain way that some people call 'aggressive' in certain areas. So people don't always like him. On nasioc, I have heard a few people at stage 3 (or higher) complain about excessive knock with his maps, but at that stage you should have a dyno tune anyway, IMO. I'm doing this tune with Eric a bit as a service to him to see what the difference is between a dyno tune and his E-tune, to see if it really is worth the $500 for the dyno tune. I'm pretty sure it is, but I've always been curious. I think at stage 2 or less a dyno tune really isn't needed IMO, and Etunes are fine. Past that = dyno tune.

    I've also heard really good things about... Phadon? Something like that. I can't remember the name, but TP and they were the last two I was researching for my etune. But you are dynoing it, so lets get that header question answered:

    From my experience, after installing my Perrin headers last weekend, my normal daily driving was unaltered. I did drop from about a 10.8-11.0 to 11.2-11.4 on the AFR gauge under WOT while going into boost (i.e midrange, from 0psi - 10 psi) - that could be signifigant if you had a finely tuned map running a perfect AFR (mine was rich to begin with intentionally). I believe if you installed the headers on a good safe tune, you'd be safe driving it if you didn't get into boost on the drive. But again, an AFR gauge would be required to monitor this.

    But I would talk to the tuner you choose first, and see what they think. Without an uppipe install, the job is like 20 minutes start to finish on a lift. With the uppipe, it's decently longer (3 hours). Don't forget new gaskets too.
    Awesome! I'm getting so excited just thinking about this. I'm going to contact Akuma this week and see if we can begin setting this all up.

  7. #21
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    In regards to your question about whether it would be safe to drive to the shop with the headers installed:

    Talk to Akuma about that. They should be able to tell you what they want you to do, whether that's leaving them off to be installed at the shop, or sending you a basic map to use for the drive, or that everything would be fine. They are going to be your tuner, so have them tell you how they want you to approach that issue.
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    John (Akuma) knows the Cobb maps better than most, as he helped make them. I've never looked at them, but I would assume that they are conservative enough that you'd be able to cruise to the shop for your tune without issue. If John believes it to be an issue, he'd likely send you a limp map to get you there.

    Just be aware, if you choose to go with Akuma, they are one of the last remaining unmolested Mustang dynos, so don't get wrapped up in peak values.
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  9. #23
    Registered User Mike193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    John (Akuma) knows the Cobb maps better than most, as he helped make them. I've never looked at them, but I would assume that they are conservative enough that you'd be able to cruise to the shop for your tune without issue. If John believes it to be an issue, he'd likely send you a limp map to get you there.

    Just be aware, if you choose to go with Akuma, they are one of the last remaining unmolested Mustang dynos, so don't get wrapped up in peak values.
    That's another thing I should probably learn before I get this done. When people say 'I made XXX, but it was on a mustang dyno' what does that mean? like different dynos give different numbers even if the car is identical?

  10. #24
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike193 View Post
    That's another thing I should probably learn before I get this done. When people say 'I made XXX, but it was on a mustang dyno' what does that mean? like different dynos give different numbers even if the car is identical?
    Exactly right!
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  11. #25
    Registered User Mike193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    Exactly right!
    how and why? if you don't mind explaining I'd greatly appreciate it.

  12. #26
    Sammich Makin' Pwincess wrxtreme06's Avatar
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    Mustang dynos read lower than most.

    For example I made 224ish on a mustang dyno but made 241 on a dynojet

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  13. #27
    Registered User Mike193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrxtreme06 View Post
    Mustang dynos read lower than most.

    For example I made 224ish on a mustang dyno but made 241 on a dynojet
    Hmmm, thats confusing. well, whaaaatever

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike193 View Post
    Hmmm, thats confusing. well, whaaaatever
    No, it's not.

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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike193 View Post
    how and why? if you don't mind explaining I'd greatly appreciate it.
    Well, to start, there are a couple (I think) types of dynos. There's the one that have the big rollers, and there are the ones that bolt on to the wheel hubs.

    Besides that, there are software differences, differences in how the tuner calibrates things, differences from ambient temp, humidity, etc (which also has to do with how the tuner calibrates).

    Edit: Just read the link Zax posted, he beat me to it and that is a nice thorough write-up.
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  16. #30
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike193 View Post
    Correct me here if I'm wrong, but isn't a Pro-tune going to be more refined and specific compared to an E-tune?

    Yes



    Quote Originally Posted by elblanco1987 View Post
    From what I've seen it's not that big of a difference. They both look at the maps from your data log and base it on your current mods. But I'm a newb so maybe there's something idk

    Most e-tunes are not going to be that precise. For example.. the last map I looked at from TP was done in six revisions. The last tune I had done (dyno, then street) was 34 revisions. It takes time to really dial things in, time that an e-tuner usually isn't getting paid for.



    Quote Originally Posted by elblanco1987 View Post
    Idk anybody who's had a bad map from TP though

    Then you haven't seen what I have.

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