Stage 2: Could it really be that simple?
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This is a discussion on Stage 2: Could it really be that simple? within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Car: 2013 WRX 5dr just about to hit 1000 miles. Background: I understand cars but am way better with motorcycles ...

  1. #1
    Registered User PalisadesWBL's Avatar
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    Stage 2: Could it really be that simple?

    Car: 2013 WRX 5dr just about to hit 1000 miles. Background: I understand cars but am way better with motorcycles and I know very little about the whole turbo thing. Suspension, Brakes, Transmission I can handle all that, and will do what needs to be done once it warms up a little. These mods seem unlikely to cause me warranty problems and even if they do, in most cases it shouldn't really be that bad of a hit to the wallet.

    Dilemma: The engine is where I'm on the fence. I really like the car so far and if it had a 100 more HP it would easily be the most fun car I have ever owned. I get that stage 2 is getting me no where near this mythical 100 HP I am talking about, nor am I that much of a baller to do that much of a mod to a car that has 2500 miles, but... Almost daily I go back and forth about modding the engine. I've loaded up a more than a few online shopping carts only to chicken out at the last minute. Then I think why not put 20K miles on it, do nothing to it and just sell it to get the STi. Problem with that is in two years I will come back here and ask this same question, so...

    Let me see if I have this straight? Stage 2 could be just as simple as a downpipe and a custom tune? I've read a ton of stuff on this site, most of the stickies, and that's the conclusion I've come to. It seems too easy? I am seriously having a hard time believing that adding an exhaust and some kind of intake will have no bearing on gains. It's not to say I don't believe you guys, there seems to be a ton of knowledgeable people on here. It just goes against everything I thought I knew about performance.

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    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Re: Stage 2: Could it really be that simple?

    ^^^ It's that simple. :beer:

    More flow, more boost and a appropriately mapped tune to address the new found freedom and you have a stage2 with loads of more power and fun

    Just need to be careful on which tune u choose.... Initial Cobb stage2 map, the LWG, didn't like the CBE and I had to reflash with the SLWG map....

    Anything beyond the stage2 will be pretty expensive in these cars....
    Last edited by jsBLwrx; 01-24-2013 at 06:52 PM.

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    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Stage 2 is simply a downpipe and an appropriate tune. The stock downpipe is by far the most restrictive part of the intake/exhaust system.

    A catback exhaust...maybe you might gain a little, but we're talking a very very little. Not enough to notice at all.

    The intake, if properly tuned for, will net you some extra power. It is just generally looked at later as it is not the best bang for your buck (the downpipe is, as previously mentioned).
    - Will
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    Previous Cars:2012 WRB WRX Hatch, 2004 RSX-S, 1998 Grand Prix GTP
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    You talk about an additional 100hp. You talking about bhp or whp? Because a custom S2 tune should net you 100bhp, if that's what you're looking for...
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    A system is only as restrictive as its most restrictive point .. that being the downpipe. Not to say you would gain nothing from an intake or catback, but the downpipe is substantial gains. When you replace the catback after already having done the downpipe the gains aren't that much because the turbo is the restriction ... more or less.

    And obviously anything that makes a worthwhile difference will need to be tuned for.

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    Re: Stage 2: Could it really be that simple?

    I've been on a stage 1 tune for a year (no mods), and am getting ready to go stage 2 tomorrow night (downpipe/tune). Yolk let you know my thoughts.

    I went stage 1 with 25 miles on the car. Now at 10k miles, its time!

    Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

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    Road Hazard STI*NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    A system is only as restrictive as its most restrictive point .. that being the downpipe. Not to say you would gain nothing from an intake or catback, but the downpipe is substantial gains. When you replace the catback after already having done the downpipe the gains aren't that much because the turbo is the restriction ... more or less.
    Do you know if this is true for the STI as well? I have an 09 and certainly wouldn't mind adding 100 bhp...

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    Registered User PalisadesWBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    You talk about an additional 100hp. You talking about bhp or whp? Because a custom S2 tune should net you 100bhp, if that's what you're looking for...
    Please forgive me for spelling it all out I just want to be sure. Down pipe and Stage 2 custom tune could conceivably net me 100bhp (I understand the differences) without doing anything else? To me that would be worth ending the warranty.

    1. Do I still need a Cobb AP or something similar even though I plan on getting a custom tune?
    2. Is it a one tune fits all? I live in the north, cold plus the gas. Should I have a map for the winter and a map for the summer?

    I am sure you've been asked these questions 100 times, but please know that I really appreciate everyone's help, your answers are helping me to start putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Makes so much more sense now. The exhaust thing was really messing me up, I've seen two wheelers go from 105 to 130 at the wheel with just an exhaust, a $2000 exhaust but an exhaust nonetheless. I figured thats why so many WRX/STi were loud.

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    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Re: Stage 2: Could it really be that simple?

    As long as you go with a TBE of exhaust and a tune will get you close to what you want

    Having said that the AWD system will suffer more parasitic loss than any FWD or RWD platforms would. 100bhp on AWD does not translate to equal wheel hp as the other drivetrains....

    In reality though, the stage2 will make you smile;............endlessly :beer:

  11. #10
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalisadesWBL View Post
    1. Do I still need a Cobb AP or something similar even though I plan on getting a custom tune?
    2. Is it a one tune fits all? I live in the north, cold plus the gas. Should I have a map for the winter and a map for the summer?
    Find yourself a tuner, and they will answer these questions for you. Different tuners use different mediums, yours may need you to get an AP or they may not. Your local tuner will/should also be able to put together correct tunes for your local environmental circumstance.
    - Will
    First Mods: What to do and what not to do
    Current Car: 2014 Golf TDI
    Previous Cars:2012 WRB WRX Hatch, 2004 RSX-S, 1998 Grand Prix GTP
    "Isn't it amazing how smart you feel when you just aren't being stupid?"

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    How reliable is the car after the down pipe and tune? Is it better to wait till the warranty is up? It sounds really tempting but so does Stock reliability and No worries!

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalisadesWBL
    Please forgive me for spelling it all out I just want to be sure. Down pipe and Stage 2 custom tune could conceivably net me 100bhp (I understand the differences) without doing anything else? To me that would be worth ending the warranty.
    Absolutely. If I were to tune your car @ S2, I'd expect at least 100bhp increase in performance, factoring in NY 93E10 fuel, which I'm pretty familiar with.

    Quote Originally Posted by PalisadesWBL
    1. Do I still need a Cobb AP or something similar even though I plan on getting a custom tune?
    This depends on who you plan to tune the car. Some shops will tune OpenECU, some will require the Cobb AP. Living in the NYMA, you have a lot of shops to choose from, so reach out to them and see what they say.

    Quote Originally Posted by PalisadesWBL
    2. Is it a one tune fits all? I live in the north, cold plus the gas. Should I have a map for the winter and a map for the summer?
    Your seasons are mild compared to mine (Upstate NY boonies). A proper tune should be able to account for the variances in elevation/temperature you'd see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    How reliable is the car after the down pipe and tune? Is it better to wait till the warranty is up? It sounds really tempting but so does Stock reliability and No worries!
    With a good tune, I'd trust aftermarket over OE. That said, aftermarket won't fix issues that you come across if warranty claims are denied. Your call.
    Last edited by EJ257; 01-24-2013 at 07:48 PM.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STI*NG View Post
    Do you know if this is true for the STI as well? I have an 09 and certainly wouldn't mind adding 100 bhp...

    Same size turbo, 09+ WRX & STi should net similar gains from similar mods.

  15. #14
    Registered User PalisadesWBL's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure it is abundantly apparent I didn't consider parasitic loss of an AWD vs. other drivetrains, might even be apparent that this is the first and second time I've ever used the word parasitic in a sentence. And I am totally down with smiling endlessly.

    Then I shall find a tuner.

    I can answer this one, all down to how you treat the car. I am pretty sure I could make a 100% stock car of any make or any model stop running inside of a week, if it's a rented car probably three days.

    EJ257 thanks for breaking it down for me. I especially like the part about at least 100 bhp, and thanks again everyone, so much help. Very happy this forum exists.

    I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
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    Moderator T0rque's Avatar
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    Stage 2: Could it really be that simple?

    Yup


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