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This is a discussion on help whats better AEM INTAKE OR STOCK AIR FILTER? within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by Zman13 Well not really sure if they are or not cause i wasnt there when they did ...

  1. #16
    MAINEiac 11blackSTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13 View Post
    Well not really sure if they are or not cause i wasnt there when they did the dyno run! But when a chief engineer says that most stock intakes are as good as it gets in the year 2013 i tend to want to believe him! And on top of that its proven that the stock WRX airbox is good up to 400hp heck that all i need! Even if i MOD my car i doubt i will reach 400hp with the mild MOD's that i might go with. Also if Companies truly are getting that much HP gain with there Air filter did they do a tune also?? Because im pretty sure you cant just throw a Cold air intake on a 2.5 turbo Boxer engine with out making it run super lean. And if they did use a Tune or tune the car also with that air filter in the test then i would say it was more the tune. But if they didnt tune the car even if they did get an extra HP gain im guessing the car is running super lean and eventually run into problems. I would like to also see the AF ratio during tests of all these aftermarket air filters. A lean engine is a very bad thing... But like i said if my stock box is capable of 400hp thats all i need! JMO...
    It shows that right on the dyno tab And they did use it on a car that had other modifications. However, they do state right on the compatabilty tab that this is designed to work with the stock ECU settings. If you have other modifications they say you do need a tune. I know basically nothing about tuning, but I would assume that is because you have already had your car tuned and the tune didn't assume a higher flow intake?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackSTi View Post
    It shows that right on the dyno tab And they did use it on a car that had other modifications. However, they do state right on the compatabilty tab that this is designed to work with the stock ECU settings. If you have other modifications they say you do need a tune. I know basically nothing about tuning, but I would assume that is because you have already had your car tuned and the tune didn't assume a higher flow intake?
    The fact that the car they used had the other MOD's already make me leary! You cant claim gains on a MODed car you just cant! I want to see the results on a bone stock WRX with clear indications of the AF ratio! There claims that it can be used in the stock ECU means nothing until i see clear proof and test results and even then anybody can post pictures of false tests online.. Buy the way im not being mean to you or cocky at all because as ive admitted before im not an expert with Turbo cars but i do now enough basic info and i know i some things can come across on forums when you type and cant hear the tone of the other persons voice. Im just saying that i want the best for my car and before i would add any MOD's i need to see plenty of proof and research that its safe. To me if the stock can handle 400hp why would you need to spend $300 on a new filter system! I would be more ap to use a performance air drop in filter like AEM then the entire CIA.. I think that would be good enough and safer! But that said i still would do research on that to make sure that the new filter would filter out dirt and dust as well or better then the stock filter before i would use it!

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    MAINEiac 11blackSTi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13 View Post
    The fact that the car they used had the other MOD's already make me leary! You cant claim gains on a MODed car you just cant! I want to see the results on a bone stock WRX with clear indications of the AF ratio! There claims that it can be used in the stock ECU means nothing until i see clear proof and test results and even then anybody can post pictures of false tests online.. Buy the way im not being mean to you or cocky at all because as ive admitted before im not an expert with Turbo cars but i do now enough basic info and i know i some things can come across on forums when you type and cant hear the tone of the other persons voice. Im just saying that i want the best for my car and before i would add any MOD's i need to see plenty of proof and research that its safe. To me if the stock can handle 400hp why would you need to spend $300 on a new filter system! I would be more ap to use a performance air drop in filter like AEM then the entire CIA.. I think that would be good enough and safer! But that said i still would do research on that to make sure that the new filter would filter out dirt and dust as well or better then the stock filter before i would use it!
    My stock shifter boot is rated to 2000 hp and I still replaced it

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    If the stock Air box in the WRX is good for 400hp that is good enough for me! Even if i MOD my car down the road i dont see myself going over 400hp! Yes the sound of the Turbo spooling would be cool but not at the risk of my engine! I want the best for my car!
    There's nothing to risk in the engine if you properly scale the MAF to account for the changes in airflow. Even the OE airbox can use some MAF scaling. Water ingestion is prevented by common sense. If you go into a puddle deep enough to submerge your intake filter, you deserve it.

    Like I said before, the stock intake is a decent restriction at StageII level on a VFXX car. Here's an example:
    2011 Subaru STI stage 2 plus intake. Before/After intake test. - NASIOC

    StageII STI. 19whp peak gains. 25+whp at redline.

    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackSTi
    It shows that right on the dyno tab And they did use it on a car that had other modifications. However, they do state right on the compatabilty tab that this is designed to work with the stock ECU settings. If you have other modifications they say you do need a tune. I know basically nothing about tuning, but I would assume that is because you have already had your car tuned and the tune didn't assume a higher flow intake?
    I would advise my customers against it. There are sections you have to scale the MAF by ~10% on newer WRXs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    The fact that the car they used had the other MOD's already make me leary! You cant claim gains on a MODed car you just cant! I want to see the results on a bone stock WRX with clear indications of the AF ratio!
    Few people are inclined enough to install a WBO2 sensor on a stock car, so you won't get proper AFR readings.
    Last edited by EJ257; 01-15-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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    help whats better AEM INTAKE OR STOCK AIR FILTER?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    I would advise my customers against it. There are sections you have to scale the MAF by ~10% on newer WRXs.
    This is interesting because over the years and models their curves have changed even though the parts and consumables, including the fuel, are generally the same. I wonder how the go about changing things and from where they get their feedback if any.
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    I agree but like you said it has to be done Right.. With most domestic cars you can just throw a CAI on and call it a day and the computer will adjust.
    I'm not as familiar with the domestic cars, but where is the MAF sensor located, if they use MAF-based fueling? In the intake (like with ours) or further downstream?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    So for me i just prefer to keep my car stock for awhile especially with my warranty and it being a brand new car!
    Perfectly reasonable. You're not willing to modify your car and break your end of the warranty contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    Im just not confidant in my current skills with these cars to mess with the tuning and trying to disconect it and reinstall it every time i have to go to the dealer! I also feel my car will be more reliable in the stock state. Also if these guys are disconecting there tunes to take it to the dealer wouldnt the car run lean during that time since it still has the other MOD's on it like Down pipe, CAI, and what ever else the added??
    What's the point of removing the tune if the modifications remain on the car? The only reason you'd remove the map is if your intent is to try to fool them into thinking you haven't modified the car, yet you leave the shiny downpipe and bright red intake pipe on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    Just seems like a whole lot of trouble to go threw when these cars are already pretty good in stock form..I not saying i will never ever do any MOD's but it wont be for awhile if i do and i will know darn sure what im doing by then before i do it! Or find a good tuner that does if i did decide too!
    Your priorities are different. For someone looking for reliability, leaving the car in stock form is ideal (although, I'd argue that the OL/CL fueling delay is a risk), because if something goes wrong, you have your warranty to fall back on. For someone looking for performance, the stock intake is not ideal when you start getting into even the most basic power modifications (StageII). The base maps like Cobb that support the AEM/Cobb intakes are mainly just MAF scaling to keep fueling on point, rather than utilizing them for more power (from what I can tell, having no access to ATR), which would lead to a bit of misinformation when people see gains are as minimal as shown by Cobb.

    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR
    This is interesting because over the years and models their curves have changed even though the parts and consumables, including the fuel, are generally the same. I wonder how the go about changing things and from where they get their feedback if any.
    I don't have MAF scalings for the Perrin intakes of '02-'07. I know that Jeremys (testes1010) experience with them was that they were one of the worst offenders, however.
    Last edited by EJ257; 01-15-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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    ^Ok first yes most of the American Muscle cars ive owned have the MAF in the intake tube between the filter and the throttle body. The part when i was discussing Removing the tune from a car is what it seems like the majority of people are doing before they take them into the dealer so it looks like the car was never Modded and retain there warranty(not what im doing)..If there is fueling delay in stock form of these cars from the factory and they run slightly lean then sure they could benefit from a good tune i dont know enough about these cars to concur tho! Also if the stock intake is good for 400 hp i would think that would be good enough for most MOD's now of course if you plan on building these cars into super cars with over 400 hp ya you will need a better intake!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    I don't have MAF scalings for the Perrin intakes of '02-'07. I know that Jeremys (testes1010) experience with them was that they were one of the worst offenders, however.


    I think Keith shares the same opinion..

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    Re: help whats better AEM INTAKE OR STOCK AIR FILTER?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13
    ^Ok first yes most of the American Muscle cars ive owned have the MAF in the intake tube between the filter and the throttle body. The part when i was discussing Removing the tune from a car is what it seems like the majority of people are doing before they take them into the dealer so it looks like the car was never Modded and retain there warranty(not what im doing)..If there is fueling delay in stock form of these cars from the factory and they run slightly lean then sure they could benefit from a good tune i dont know enough about these cars to concur tho! Also if the stock intake is good for 400 hp i would think that would be good enough for most MOD's now of course if you plan on building these cars into super cars with over 400 hp ya you will need a better intake!
    If the MAF is post intake, it shouldn't have the effect it does in our cars.

    A custom StageII tune puts you close to the 400bhp point. At which point an intake is worth it to throw on while they're tuning the car anyway. I'd expect ~10-15whp peak on a newer car vs the OE airbox.
    Last edited by EJ257; 01-15-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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    Registered User mgmoehn's Avatar
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    When I put the AEM sticker on my car, it gained 50whp right there... the sticker came with my intake so WHO knows how much more I have with the intake too... so much gains...
    2012 WRX Hatchback ISM - Base Model - STI STS, SPT Boost Gauge, AEM Intake, TP Stage 1 Tune, red illumination kit, cobb shift knob, 20% tint - currently on stock wheels wrapped in Pirelli Winter Carving Edge Tires
    Some cool tidbits to come...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman13 View Post
    This is a hard subject! I would say on older cars and design a CAI always did help more air flow and filter better. BUT now a days the new cars come with some really good air boxes that have great flow and good filtration! I was even watching an episode of Jay Leno's garage and he asked the the cheif engineer of FORD when they where talking about the new Boss Mustang about how good are stock air filters now a days? Jay asked "whats up with these Cold AIR intakes?'' Are they really better then stock?'' The Engineer said they use to be but not any more! Most car manufactures have really good systems now a days he said! He said you cold still use them for show but as far as peformance STOCK is best! If the stock Air box in the WRX is good for 400hp that is good enough for me! Even if i MOD my car down the road i dont see myself going over 400hp! Yes the sound of the Turbo spooling would be cool but not at the risk of my engine! I want the best for my car! I know some performance drop in filters claim they have better flow and filtration then stock but i would like to see there study on that and then i might consider one of those like the AEM drop in.. But thats about it! That all being said i am going to look into this more and a CIA is not deff out of the picture!
    Of course a ford engineer is going to say the part he helped design is the best in the biz....
    But it's simply not true, intakes gain hp even on the mighty 5.0.....
    Your not "hurting" your engine running an aftermarket filter.
    I had an el cheapo eBay cai on my rsx type-s for 165k miles. It was still on the car when I sold it. With perfect compression and it ran fine, just as hard as the day I rolled it off the showroom floor with 12 miles on it. So I don't care what anyone says, your car will wear out faster from your heavy right foot before a less restrictive intake will affect it.
    Ppl that modify cars generally drive them harder than people who don't. Some people might misconstrue that as the mods causing the problems. But it's the driver 99% of the time
    Last edited by EndlessSea; 01-18-2013 at 11:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessSea View Post
    Your not "hurting" your engine running an aftermarket filter.
    Where are the data to support this?

    If an imitation filter allows more dirt to enter the motor, is it reasonable to expect no damage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessSea View Post
    Your not "hurting" your engine running an aftermarket filter.
    Where are the data to support this?

    If an imitation filter allows more dirt to enter the motor, is it reasonable to expect no damage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessSea View Post
    Your not "hurting" your engine running an aftermarket filter.


    The vast majority of UOAs I've seen indicate otherwise..

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessSea View Post
    Your not "hurting" your engine running an aftermarket filter.
    I had an el cheapo eBay cai on my rsx type-s for 165k miles. It was still on the car when I sold it. With perfect compression and it ran fine, just as hard as the day I rolled it off the showroom floor with 12 miles on it. So I don't care what anyone says, your car will wear out faster from your heavy right foot before a less restrictive intake will affect it.
    You obviously aren't familiar with turbo engines and ECUs are you?
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