looking for real dyno numbers with Perrin vs. PW TMIC. - Page 2
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This is a discussion on looking for real dyno numbers with Perrin vs. PW TMIC. within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by teflon_jones The IC is a really critical piece of a highly modified, high output turbo system versus ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    The IC is a really critical piece of a highly modified, high output turbo system versus a stock turbo system where the relative differences in performance between different ICs are much less important. However, I've never seen any detailed dyno info about the Perrin versus the PW units, so all you're going to get (unless there's something out there I'm unaware of) is people's personal opinions.

    Here's a LINK to the most detailed comparison of the two I've seen. It also includes a comparison with the stock STI TMIC, which should be another option you consider. Those typically go for $300-350 so they will save you significant money over either of the two aftermarket options.

    Yeah, but other stuff has to be changed to accomodate that STI TMIC correct? If that's the case then i'd modify it so I could install the ETS STI TM lol.
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  3. #17
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    I have also read the perrin is much more difficullt to install. Just what i've read though. The PW also comes with a splitter and the IC tubing... not sure if the Perrin comes with their pieces though.
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    Registered User 11blackwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teflon_jones View Post
    The IC is a really critical piece of a highly modified, high output turbo system versus a stock turbo system where the relative differences in performance between different ICs are much less important. However, I've never seen any detailed dyno info about the Perrin versus the PW units, so all you're going to get (unless there's something out there I'm unaware of) is people's personal opinions.

    Here's a LINK to the most detailed comparison of the two I've seen. It also includes a comparison with the stock STI TMIC, which should be another option you consider. Those typically go for $300-350 so they will save you significant money over either of the two aftermarket options.
    that was some great info, do you or any one on here know anything about swapping an sti intercooler into a wrx and what it requires? seems like it could be a cheap and effective IC upgrade
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    Registered User wrx650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackwrx View Post
    that was some great info, do you or any one on here know anything about swapping an sti intercooler into a wrx and what it requires? seems like it could be a cheap and effective IC upgrade
    I don't think it is really possible to do on the 09+ from what I've read. I might be wrong though.
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    Yeah om trying to see if there is a thread on this or diy or anything
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackwrx View Post
    Yeah om trying to see if there is a thread on this or diy or anything
    anything is possible, but i've looked for a diy as well and didn't see anything.
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    Registered User 11blackwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u View Post
    anything is possible, but i've looked for a diy as well and didn't see anything.
    Would seem unlikely it hasn't been done or attempted I'm sure someone can post some links or info
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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    People do it all the time when running the STi fitment turbo..

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    Registered User 11blackwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    People do it all the time when running the STi fitment turbo..
    know of any write ups or anything for 08+ wrx
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    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u View Post
    I was looking into one of these 2 going up to stage 3 along with a fuel pump, a 3 port and the TMIC. I know that the PW is an excellent IC an excellent quality and the fitment is excellent. However, to spend an additional 2-300.00 for very few hp ... or even worse, none at all... I wanted to get possibly some real numbers to help me with my decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    As a general rule you likely won't see much power difference between the two on a dyno. Nothing that can't be attributed to dyno error, at least.
    I think you are going to have a hard time quantifying the difference off of dyno plots as well.

    I would look to compare pressure drop & efficiency - not dyno plots. While a better IC should put out some more ponies... more ponies do not infer a better IC. Some parameters to consider when comparing dyno plots that are normally overlooked:
    -The tuner may not let the ECTsIATs settle back down between dyno runs. Easy mistake when doing pulls with limited cooling.
    -The tuner may be biased towards an IC. Correction factors and other dyno settings such as ramp rate may be changed to get an easy edge on the numbers
    -Timing and Boost should be adjusted to match the specific intercooler to your car. A lower pressure drop (and higher efficiency) will show different results based off of your turbos compressor map. Some turbos work better at high CFMs under lower pressures. Some like higher pressures. Your boost & timing maps should reflect this. I wouldn't expect this to be a huge difference, but in all actuality this will show which IC shines better.
    -Don't use dyno runs that are from different dynos/days/cars. Too many factors at play.

    Just some food for thought. A lot of times it is easy in our hobby to confuse correlation and causation. While you can see a power gain in a given comparison, the correlation of higher power with a given IC does NOT directly infer that the IC caused it. I like to look at the 'lowest level' possible for things like this... strip out as much fluff as you can. I'd see if you can find any (quality) quantitative data regarding their efficiency and pressure drop.
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    Registered User Axex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackwrx View Post
    know of any write ups or anything for 08+ wrx
    For 08+ I don't think too many have really done the swap for an STI top mount. I believe the setup would require you to have the STI intercooler, intake manifold, and turbo because of how they are all connected and different from the WRX. This would end up costing more than it would really be worth.

    As for the OP, I don't think there is too much out there comparing the two. As others said, dyno numbers won't be really helpful (too many variables, not ideal conditions for the IC). I think people like the PW because the core is big enough that it can support some larger turbos. If you never plan to change that, maybe the Perrin would work just fine? I would definitely talk to a tuner as others said and look at what turbos people are able to run with the PW to get an idea of it's capabilities.

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    I'm just looking to see who might have the Perrin vs. who might have the PW. Now the PW has a ton of great reviews. I cannot find as many great reviews for the Perrin. The Perrin also (from what I have read) has some fitment issues and so that makes it less attractive to me. As I also said... the PW includes the silicone hoses to go with the kit, those would cost 100.00 or more i'm guessing? So now suddenly the price difference isn't quite as substantial. I'm not knocking on Perrin's products, at least not on purpose. I'm simply going by what I have read. Which one ultimately do what it's supposed to do better is the the question. They are both top quality products and the Perrin also has a 5 year warranty on it. I don't think the PW has this. I'm not sure of the warranty, so Perrin does trust in their product enough to provide that. Will they back it up? I don't really know about that... but I don't recall any huge problems with Perrin's customer service either.

    I'm going to think about it for a while today, make my decision, buy one of the IC's, a 3 port and a DW 65 FP, as recommended by Eric as a "just in case".

    Does anyone think that a BPV might be necessary as well? Eric never mentioned it, so i'm guessing he's done enough tunes not to see any leaking at what boost levels his stage 3 map would be set for.
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    3rd Gen STI TMICs are completely different from the Legacy style setup of the 3rd gen WRXs. They aren't compatible like they were back with 02-07 WRX/STIs.
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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    3rd Gen STI TMICs are completely different from the Legacy style setup of the 3rd gen WRXs. They aren't compatible like they were back with 02-07 WRX/STIs.



    They can be used.. actually, the STi fitment TMIC is necessary when running a STi (or 02-07 WRX) fitment turbo. The only people that I've seen do the swap to the STi TMIC was when doing a turbo upgrade.


    Of course if you're just wanting a better IC then it doesn't make any sense to swap the turbo, intake manifold, and everything.. just buy a better IC that is designed to work with the 08+ WRX/LGT fitment.

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    pulled the trigger on the PW, GS 3port, and DW65c. I'll give you all some numbers after I get it all, install it and get Eric's stage 3 map. The numbers will be from a VD, but I will have some from my stage 2 set-up to compare to.
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