boost solenoid items??
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This is a discussion on boost solenoid items?? within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; hi quick qeustion i have a a mbc on my td05 16g at the moment running 22 psi i love ...

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    Registered User sxcrxy's Avatar
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    boost solenoid items??

    hi quick qeustion i have a a mbc on my td05 16g at the moment running 22 psi i love the spool and everything but partial throttle spools up to mutch like 2nd gear 40 %going up a hill ill be hitting about 15 psi, annyways thats not really a problem but i would like to use the stock boost solienoid and have abit more control witht the boost,i have a tune ready to go on for it to work with a boost solienoid (@20psi) but what will i need??

    i dont have restrictor pill will i need one for this wastegate?
    the wastegate pressure is 13- 14 psi
    what T - piece will i need? any normal plastic one or what?

    my solenoid is still in place

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    zax
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    Re: boost solenoid items??

    Have you considered using a hybrid boost control scheme? This would involve using an interrupt type (3port) EBCS in conjunction with the MBC. You'll have the same lightning fast spool as the MBC without the part-throttle full-boost (PTFB) events that plague MBCs. Furthermore, you get the safety of operating with an EBCS.

    I wouldn't plan on installing a bleed type OEM EBCS back into the car... you'll be very disappointed with the boost control... and as long as you or your tuner tunes the WCDC tables properly, you won't need the restrictor pill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Have you considered using a hybrid boost control scheme? This would involve using an interrupt type (3port) EBCS in conjunction with the MBC. You'll have the same lightning fast spool as the MBC without the part-throttle full-boost (PTFB) events that plague MBCs. Furthermore, you get the safety of operating with an EBCS.

    I wouldn't plan on installing a bleed type OEM EBCS back into the car... you'll be very disappointed with the boost control... and as long as you or your tuner tunes the WCDC tables properly, you won't need the restrictor pill.

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    nice too know thats good news but can i use any t peice that fits?? if i wanted to try the stock ebcs

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    Re: boost solenoid items??

    Quote Originally Posted by sxcrxy View Post
    nice too know thats good news but can i use any t peice that fits?? if i wanted to try the stock ebcs
    Again, you will be very disappointed with the OEM bleed type EBCS... at 22 PSI you'll have to tune the WGDC and turbo dynamics very mildly to avoid the propensity to overboost. Really, consider spending the $50 for a GM interrupt-type EBCS. Perhaps Holden had an equivalent?

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    You should check out the 'Part 2' link in my signature. With what you are doing, it would be a worthy time investment to understand what's going on down there. The hybrid method is a pretty solid method in theory - I haven't tried it in person but people really like it. I may down the road a bit.

    Is the cash pretty tight? If so, I would stick with what you have until you can pick up a 3-port personally.

    If you use the stock one, you'll need a restricting pill in one of the lines. I don't remember which one off of the top of my head.
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    Re: boost solenoid items??

    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    If you use the stock one, you'll need a restricting pill in one of the lines. I don't remember which one off of the top of my head.
    Only if he plans on running the stock tune. It IS possible to tune the OEM EBCS with the restrictor pill absent, but your max/min WGDC will be much different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Only if he plans on running the stock tune. It IS possible to tune the OEM EBCS with the restrictor pill absent, but your max/min WGDC will be much different.

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    Wouldn't you have an extremely hard time tuning that? I thought that restrictor pill helped to deal with the maximum dynamics of the stock solenoid. I had always assumed so at least. Otherwise, I wouldn't see a purpose of it from Subaru's point of view. I never tried it though.
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    Re: boost solenoid items??

    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    Wouldn't you have an extremely hard time tuning that? I thought that restrictor pill helped to deal with the maximum dynamics of the stock solenoid. I had always assumed so at least. Otherwise, I wouldn't see a purpose of it from Subaru's point of view. I never tried it though.
    Yes, you are precisely correct. I'm not arguing that the restrictor pill doesn't help the tuning process...especially the turbo dynamics. I think the pill is actually located in the HP source, meaning you might see more spiking due to the inability to bleed off pressure fast enough. Still, it IS possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Yes, you are precisely correct. I'm not arguing that the restrictor pill doesn't help the tuning process...especially the turbo dynamics. I think the pill is actually located in the HP source, meaning you might see more spiking due to the inability to bleed off pressure fast enough. Still, it IS possible.
    True. Also, it's a good emphasis that you can NOT run the stock tune WITHOUT the restrictor pill. At minimum, you'd need to fix your tune.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    True. Also, it's a good emphasis that you can NOT run the stock tune WITHOUT the restrictor pill. At minimum, you'd need to fix your tune.
    hmm i looked into the hybrid boost control and i love how it works so i think im going to order a grimspeed 3 port bcs and kepp my mbc and get it to work hybrid without a restrictor pill but i have to wait for the ebcs to come from the states ( im in australia no were i can find it here)

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    Registered User sxcrxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    Wouldn't you have an extremely hard time tuning that? I thought that restrictor pill helped to deal with the maximum dynamics of the stock solenoid. I had always assumed so at least. Otherwise, I wouldn't see a purpose of it from Subaru's point of view. I never tried it though.
    and lets not forget that it isnt a stock turbo nor it is a stock wastegate, wastegate pressure is 14 psi if i did put a restrictor pill wouldnt i over boost?

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    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxcrxy View Post
    hmm i looked into the hybrid boost control and i love how it works so i think im going to order a grimspeed 3 port bcs and kepp my mbc and get it to work hybrid without a restrictor pill but i have to wait for the ebcs to come from the states ( im in australia no were i can find it here)
    I know on the RomRaider forums they have just gotten the bulk solenoid as opposed to the 'branded' ones from Grimmspeed. If you read around, I think they used a MAC solenoid which is very cheap by itself. I didn't want to mess with mounting it or anything, so I just bought one from Grimmspeed. The non-branded ones may be easier to obtain over that way though

    You may want to consult with your tuner about the hybrid method to make sure he is familiar with it. I bet it'll make the car much easier to tune in the end than just using an EBCS. For me, the spool up region with a 3-port alone is pretty tedious to tune precisely on my model. The hybrid setup is a cool concept though. I look forward to playing with it first hand in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by sxcrxy View Post
    and lets not forget that it isnt a stock turbo nor it is a stock wastegate, wastegate pressure is 14 psi if i did put a restrictor pill wouldnt i over boost?
    That's a good question. I wouldn't feel confident answering it. I'd recommend using a 3-port though if you aren't on the stock turbo - no reason to waste a nice turbo with slow boost control between wastegate pressure and full boost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

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    Registered User sxcrxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    I know on the RomRaider forums they have just gotten the bulk solenoid as opposed to the 'branded' ones from Grimmspeed. If you read around, I think they used a MAC solenoid which is very cheap by itself. I didn't want to mess with mounting it or anything, so I just bought one from Grimmspeed. The non-branded ones may be easier to obtain over that way though

    You may want to consult with your tuner about the hybrid method to make sure he is familiar with it. I bet it'll make the car much easier to tune in the end than just using an EBCS. For me, the spool up region with a 3-port alone is pretty tedious to tune precisely on my model. The hybrid setup is a cool concept though. I look forward to playing with it first hand in the future.



    That's a good question. I wouldn't feel confident answering it. I'd recommend using a 3-port though if you aren't on the stock turbo - no reason to waste a nice turbo with slow boost control between wastegate pressure and full boost.
    well the tuner was infamous tuning but as i add parts or change things around i modify the map my self i know how to tune just not to good with timing but everything elese im pree good at :P the boost spools to 20 psi @ 4000rpm its pree quick but just partial throttle i want more control :P

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    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxcrxy View Post
    well the tuner was infamous tuning but as i add parts or change things around i modify the map my self i know how to tune just not to good with timing but everything elese im pree good at :P the boost spools to 20 psi @ 4000rpm its pree quick but just partial throttle i want more control :P
    Timing is hard to do yourself, I agree.

    If you are looking to play around with it, I'd say as long as you are careful there is no reason you couldn't get your boost control dialed in pretty closely.

    For newer cars like mine, its convoluted with the various drive by wire tables (for better or worse). It kinda lowers some of the appeal of the hybrid control since I can set my max boost to my SI drive setting (sport/sport#). For you, I see no real drawback of using the hybrid control scheme as long as you are confident in tuning it.

    Good luck!
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
    2011 STi Build Log
    -Part 1 - Reading, Data Logging, and Analyzing Data
    -Part 2 - Turbocharger 101 & Basic Boost Control
    -Part 3 - EcuFlash, Experimental Defintions, and a Drive By Wire Intro

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    Registered User sxcrxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
    Timing is hard to do yourself, I agree.

    If you are looking to play around with it, I'd say as long as you are careful there is no reason you couldn't get your boost control dialed in pretty closely.

    For newer cars like mine, its convoluted with the various drive by wire tables (for better or worse). It kinda lowers some of the appeal of the hybrid control since I can set my max boost to my SI drive setting (sport/sport#). For you, I see no real drawback of using the hybrid control scheme as long as you are confident in tuning it.

    Good luck!
    thanks man!

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