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This is a discussion on want a new turbo within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by MainFrame My car isn't put back together yet. I have to wait for my guys to get ...

  1. #16
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    My car isn't put back together yet. I have to wait for my guys to get back from Pikes Peak, assemble, then break in and tune. The only other Subaru I've found running a GTX3576r looks to be hitting full boost around 4800rpm on the dyno.. should be earlier on the street. I'm hoping to get it down to around 4250rpm on the street since I'm running a Tial .82 A/R turbine housing. The Garrett T3 four bolt .82 A/R housing that Gleep is running isn't going to spool as well as my Tial housing, but then again he has dual AVCS heads and my car is non AVCS...
    you use awdtuning?

    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    The FP Red 76HTA is basically a stock location Garrett 3076 with a 76mm HTA wheel instead of a GT or GTX wheel. The HTA wheel is billet aluminum, like the GTX wheel and is also designed to be more efficient at higher boost pressures. I don't know how the weight compares between HTA and GTX wheels, but I would guess they're pretty similar. The HTA wheel is slightly smaller than its counterpart GTX wheel, but unfortunately Forced Performance does not release compressor maps for their turbos, so we don't really know how the HTA wheels flow compared to GTX wheels. The design is slightly different.. the GTX wheel has 11 blades, whereas HTA wheels have 7 blades. The main difference I've seen people reporting is that turbos utilizing the GTX wheel are very quiet and turbos with HTA wheels are very loud, like diesel truck turbo spooling loud.

    I'm not certain of the HTA wheel in the new Green. If it's the same size as the Green they make for the Evo then it's a 73mm compressor wheel.



    Really, without compressor maps on the HTA turbos and no back to back tests comparing them to GTX wheels there's no way to tell which one if going to spool first or make more power. The GTX3071 will spool earlier than the GTX3076 and make less power. The FP Green HTA will spool earlier than the FP Red 76HTA and make less power.

    There are a lot of other factors determining spool and power, so it's a toss up. For what it's worth I was going to get a Red 76HTA before I decided to just get it over with and go rotated.
    what did you like about the fp red? and why would you suggest the 3071 over it?

    as a side note, i emailed all 3 companies, and have only heard back from fp.

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  3. #17
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame
    The only other Subaru I've found running a GTX3576r looks to be hitting full boost around 4800rpm on the dyno.. should be earlier on the street.
    Link?
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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  4. #18
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    email reply from atp

    Thanks for the interest.

    Simple way to put it.

    Most people will not need more than the GTX3071R and if you don't need more than the power of the GTX3071R, going bigger than that (ie. GTX3076R) will just result in unnecessary lag.

    Example

    Our own shop STI 2006 with 100% bone stock longblock, untouched engine.

    - GTX3071R - makes 450 WHP on E85 fuel with 450 torque. Total street monster with awesome spool and boost responding directly to the right foot. Almost non lag.

    - We put on the GTX3076R and keep boost about the same to preserve the stock engine from grenading. Because we are not running high boost pressures to take advantage of the additional flow, the peak power and peak torque numbers are the same. Just spools about 400 rpms later, every time you rev the motor out.

    Good to know right?

    - We put the GTX3071R back on and enjoy the wider powerband with more area under curve and in fact have a faster car on the smaller engine.

    Hope this helps.

    Any other questions, please let us know.

  5. #19
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowpr
    email reply from atp
    Like I've said, the GTX3076 is mismatched. If you need more than the GTX3071, you should be stepping up to the GTX3576 that MainFrame talked about...
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  6. #20
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Like I've said, the GTX3076 is mismatched. If you need more than the GTX3071, you should be stepping up to the GTX3576 that MainFrame talked about...
    been trying to find a dyno chart of that turbo with no luck so far.

    i have some for the green, red, and 3071.

  7. #21
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowpr View Post
    you use awdtuning?


    what did you like about the fp red? and why would you suggest the 3071 over it?

    Yep.. they've been working on my car since 2009. The main reason I was going to get the Red 76HTA instead of an ATP GTX3071 was because I was going to get the Red quite a bit cheaper, and since I already have a fully build engine and ported heads with aggressive cams I decided I might as well go big. My GSC S3 cams are going to be more suited to higher revs anyways, and since my engine is blueprinted and fully balanced I can go ahead and rev it to 8000rpm if I want. I wanted to stretch the powerband as wide as I could, and with the rest of my mods it just makes sense to go with a larger turbo. Other cars at the shop are spooling GT3582s at 4200rpm, so I should end up with nearly 4000rpms of straight power.



    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Link?

    GR Hatch: Gleep's '09 - GTX3576R 448whp - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com



    Quote Originally Posted by shadowpr View Post
    been trying to find a dyno chart of that turbo with no luck so far.





    Don't forget when looking at dyno charts.. a rotated turbo is going to spool earlier, make more peak power, and hold power better up top than the same turbo used in stock location. I got my ETS rotated kit for $850 shipped, the turbo costs less than if I used stock location, and I can sell my stock location parts.. so in the end it's only costing me $200-$300 more to go with a rotated setup that performs better and is much easier to work on. Plus you have a lot more options, like the bad ass ss Tial turbine housings.

  8. #22
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    Another email from atp. This one was sent at 130 am.
    Take the comparison below (about GTX3071R vs GTX3076R) and just takein this additional consideration.- The GTX3576R comes along and it's an awesome turbo because it spoolsjust like a GTX3076R, but makes more power per psi of boost. So ithas a bigger turbine wheel and it's supposed to spool later, but itdoesn't. As a result, you get the benefits of the higher flowingturbine wheel without paying the spool penalty.If you're willing to go GTX3076R after looking at the comparo below,go GTX3576R instead and just make a lot more power for the same amountof effort.That's how you look at it.

  9. #23
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    I'm going to look at where the 3076 hits full boost and decide then. It looks like it has the power I want and then some. If I can get it to spool by 4k I'd buy it. Hopefully having a tmic will help as will the ewg.

  10. #24
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go as far as saying the GTX3576r "spools just like a GTX3076r".. that would certainly be nice, but lets face it, it's a bigger turbo and it's pushing more air with the same wheel. Simply the increased volume of air should slow it down a little.


    I think another thing to consider is that the GTX wheels are considerably more efficient at higher boost pressures than the older design. With a motor built to handle it and the right fuel you could easily run a GTX3071r up to 26-27psi on stock sleeves and it would make great torque and be very streetable.

    Then again you could sacrifice some spool and make the same amount of power with a GTX3076r on a less aggressive tune.

  11. #25
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    here is graph for a 3076: http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph....rgb1=000000255

    do you think the 3576 would spool later than that?

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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    Can't know for sure, but I would guess at least 300rpm later..

  13. #27
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    I think I'm going to go with that turbo.

    Get a conservative tune and hope my engine lasts for a while.

  14. #28
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowpr
    I think I'm going to go with that turbo.

    Get a conservative tune and hope my engine lasts for a while.
    3576? Make sure you have a full motor build fund handy. Built SB, headwork, and cams.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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  15. #29
    Registered User shadowpr's Avatar
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    i don't have the money for that yet. should have most of it in a few months though.


    i'm still debating on which to get. last night i was confident that the 3576 was the one, but now i'm not sure again.

  16. #30
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowpr
    i don't have the money for that yet. should have most of it in a few months though.


    i'm still debating on which to get. last night i was confident that the 3576 was the one, but now i'm not sure again.
    Either one is going to require a built motor. A GT35 will require more more work while the motor is out than the GT30.

    Basically, you have two choices (IMO): GTX3071 or GTX3576. It's up to you how far you're willing to go with the car.

    Personally, if you aren't planning on purchasing a second vehicle, you should be looking at the 3071.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

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