FMIC, when are they needed? - Page 4
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This is a discussion on FMIC, when are they needed? within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I see what yall are saying to a certain extent, but I feel like the lag that y'all are referring ...

  1. #46
    Registered User SubiEj255's Avatar
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    I see what yall are saying to a certain extent, but I feel like the lag that y'all are referring to isn't as bad as its being made seem.

    As far as heat soak there is no possible way the tmic can stay cooler than the fmic. That hood scoop can't collect as much or more air than a fmic
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  3. #47
    Registered User SubiEj255's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    A FMIC will allow you to tune for more peak power because it is better at cooling charge temps. A TMIC will allow you to tune for power lower in the rpm range. It all depends on what you want from your car. If you want higher numbers go FMIC, if you want more usable power, go top mount. This all changes with turbo upgrades and big power.
    Makes perfect sense
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  4. #48
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey
    You would actually benefit more with meth injection than a FMIC.
    Comparing a FMIC on pump gas and a TMIC on meth/E isn't fair, Ron...
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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    I never said PW wasn't good. If you look at my posts on the subject the PW is always the first one I recommend.
    I'm Sorry. I really didn't mean any offense by it and make myself out to be a d*&^. I was just stating that Process West, being in Australia, has quite a following in the performance world and that the Aussies don't build/sell anything that isn't top rate in function, fit, and finish. I didn't mean to imply that you had anything against them.
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  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlySense88 View Post
    I see what yall are saying to a certain extent, but I feel like the lag that y'all are referring to isn't as bad as its being made seem.

    As far as heat soak there is no possible way the tmic can stay cooler than the fmic. That hood scoop can't collect as much or more air than a fmic
    Ever hear of, vents, water-sprayer, turbo blanket, header wrap, insulation or isolation heat-shielding... I can, have, easily, almost anytime I wanted get colder than ambient IAT into throttle any time I wanted with my TMIC... What are your IAT into throttle with your FMIC set up...
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  7. #51
    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4WDFrenzy View Post
    I'm Sorry. I really didn't mean any offense by it and make myself out to be a d*&^. I was just stating that Process West, being in Australia, has quite a following in the performance world and that the Aussies don't build/sell anything that isn't top rate in function, fit, and finish. I didn't mean to imply that you had anything against them.


    Ehh.. I bet I can find some knock off crap from Australia that blows, lol. Just because it's made somewhere doesn't make something golden. Although there is a lot of great Subie products coming from the land down under. They've had a lot more time to work on stuff there.


    And I wasn't ever offended, if anything that clears things up if I was being ambiguous.

  8. #52
    Registered User wrx50's Avatar
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    I run a FMIC on my 2011 with the stock vf52. I don't have any lag issues. I make full boost of 20 psi by 3100 rpms. Cleans up the engine bay too

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  9. #53
    Registered User jd92677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx50 View Post
    I run a FMIC on my 2011 with the stock vf52. I don't have any lag issues. I make full boost of 20 psi by 3100 rpms.
    I would like to see a log of that...what mod are you running? I've never seen that much boost that quickly.
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  10. #54
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlySense88 View Post
    I see what yall are saying to a certain extent, but I feel like the lag that y'all are referring to isn't as bad as its being made seem.
    Once again,you are not taking into account the total area. Your not quite seeing the big picture. You have to match the intercooler to the turbo's airflow,just as you match a turbo to an engines airflow. Lets take the APS FMIC kits as an example.You have the DR 525 and the DR 725. The DR 525 rated for 350-525 hp and turbo's flowing 40-55lbs/min. The DR 725 is rated for 500-725hp and rated for turbos flowing 50-75lbs/min. I can garuntee if there is a noticable diffrence that can be felt and seen on a dyno/datalog as far as,spool up/midrange power is concerned between those two kits on say a stock STI with probably little difference in topend. Everything has to do with the FMIC kit you choose just as I said in my first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlySense88
    As far as heat soak there is no possible way the tmic can stay cooler than the fmic. That hood scoop can't collect as much or more air than a fmic
    Once again,depends on the TMIC and FMIC. Once again,read the article I posted about intercooler efficency and construction. It's not just about collectiong air and frontal area.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Comparing a FMIC on pump gas and a TMIC on meth/E isn't fair, Ron...
    True,but I wasn't trying to be fair. If you want looks then sure,buy any old FMIC kit. If you want all out power with the best $$$ to hp ratio meth injection even on the stock TMIC is hard to beat. Now toss in a external water spray kit (free if you use your winsheild washer nozzles) and watch the numbers go up. A good FMIC is easilly around $800+. Hey,I'm not gonna lie. I dig the looks of a FMIC as well. I used one off a Saab Viggen for my turbocharged S-10 back in the day. It looked sick,but was also sized for the turbo that I was running.
    Last edited by Donkey; 08-07-2012 at 11:01 AM.
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    I would like to see a log of that...what mod are you running? I've never seen that much boost that quickly.
    Depends on the gear of the pull. I can hit 21 PSI on my 2.0L with an 18G (larger than the VF52) by 3200 RPM in 4th gear. I don't spool until mid-3s in 3rd gear and upper 3s in 2nd gear.
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  12. #56
    The Fruit mangostick's Avatar
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    FMS.. good analogy regarding the moonbounce and leaf blower.

    Another thing I have a serious gripe with when it comes to fmic kits.. why the fk is the tubing so effin big? Or the core for that matter. Bigger isn't better its just bigger. Even at 40psi (which 99.9% will never reach on a race app let alone on the street) there is no need for 3" tubing. *face-palm* and people wonder why fmic kits introduce lag.. oi.. no forethought, no common sense. But people are dumb and continue to throw money at poorly designed fmic kits.

    thermally.. a fmic IS more efficient when speaking of just the core location... however as mentioned by fms.. there are more factors to think about when choosing one vs the other.

    edit: Donkey.. excellent link.. I'll be forwarding that to quite a few of my non-scoobie turbo friends.
    Last edited by mangostick; 08-07-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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  13. #57
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey
    True,but I wasn't trying to be fair. If you want looks then sure,buy any old FMIC kit. If you want all out power with the best $$$ to hp ratio meth injection even on the stock TMIC is hard to beat. Now toss in a external water spray kit (free if you use your winsheild washer nozzles) and watch the numbers go up. A good FMIC is easilly around $800+.
    I agree. Octane+cooling is a win. Factor in the lack of throttle response loss, and it's even better.
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  14. #58
    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Factor in the lack of throttle response loss, and it's even better.
    And thats an excellent way to put it. It's not just lag sometimes that FMIC cause,it's transient throttle response that suffers. It's impossible for it not to. It's physics. Especially if the FMIC is mismatched (to large).
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  15. #59
    Registered User SubiEj255's Avatar
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    Ok i understand. Maybe it's just with these cars as I stated. Some cars don't have the tmic option.
    A car is only as good as its driver

  16. #60
    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    A good quality FMIC that is well matched to your turbo size isn't going to be that bad as far as lag and throttle response.. it's just not going to be as good as a TMIC. If you just want the look you could always install an interfooler, or install a FMIC and lose a little responsiveness. It isn't a huge deal.. I would say the biggest negative about it is the compromise in safety. Of course I have a FMIC, no airbags, etc. No one plans on having a front end collision, and I really don't plan on it, lol.

    If you do decide to run one, remember, larger isn't always better, and don't cheap out with an eBay kit made from recycled Burmese Coke cans.. buy one that is quality made. Treadstone cores are some of the best, and ETS makes excellent products. If I decide to upgrade my FMIC I will be having ETS make it.

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