Fuel pump, injectors, TGV deletes and TD04 19T - Page 5
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This is a discussion on Fuel pump, injectors, TGV deletes and TD04 19T within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by metaldahlberg I assume that would come from tuning the valve timing. nono, I'm talking, you have a ...

  1. #61
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldahlberg View Post
    I assume that would come from tuning the valve timing.
    nono, I'm talking, you have a small turbo, you swap out for a big turbo, what about being able to flow more air out the turbo makes your engine want to take in more air? This is the link I can't visualize in my head...
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    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poly_poly-man View Post
    I get that the greater the volume (well, really mass, but for the sake of the CFM comparison) of air you push into an engine, the more power. I'm just wondering HOW, with the same pressure, you can get more air to go in?
    Because that pressure is not static. It's dynamic. You keep using the examples of sealed enclosures and thats not what engine are as a whole. They are big air pumps,just like turbos are.
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  4. #63
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
    Because that pressure is not static. It's dynamic. You keep using the examples of sealed enclosures and thats not what engine are as a whole. They are big air pumps,just like turbos are.
    True, but if you visualize the turbo as a pump, you're pushing air into the engine through a fixed nozzle. No matter how much flow the pump is rated for, with a certain pressure at the nozzle, you'll get the same amount out (into the engine, in this case). Now, I get that the engine itself is also working as a pump, sucking some air in too. However, for a fixed RPM (or piston velocity), how can this side of things be any different?
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    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poly_poly-man View Post
    True, but if you visualize the turbo as a pump, you're pushing air into the engine through a fixed nozzle. No matter how much flow the pump is rated for, with a certain pressure at the nozzle, you'll get the same amount out (into the engine, in this case). Now, I get that the engine itself is also working as a pump, sucking some air in too. However, for a fixed RPM (or piston velocity), how can this side of things be any different?
    VE. Just how changes to cams or valve size can change VE so can turbos. It's all about CFM. Bigger turbos have more of it and can move it faster if the engine will injest it. Not to mention bigger turbos do it at a lower intake temperature,which equals denser air. Bigger turbos also do it at a lower rpm. Hence why you can't run 20psi-redline on a Tdo4 but I can run probably 23-24psi to redline on my 16G-XT.
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  6. #65
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poly_poly-man View Post
    exactly. My question is.... HOW? How does the engine take in more air???

    I'm not trying to argue - I'm just really confused
    The 4 cycle engine consists of ignition near TDC (top dead center), the stroke going downwards to push the crank rod, then the piston traveling upwards to expel the exhaust gasses, then downwards to allow the air/fuel mixture to go into the engine, then compression and the next boom.

    As the piston travels downwards it creates a vacuum (hence the VAC at idle). It sucks in as much air as it can. The turbo helps to push more air into the engine. The resistance between the turbo and the ignition chamber, and the CFM of the turbo at that given PSI both determine how much air is injected into the cylinder. There is no "static pressure". The engine is always sucking, and the turbo blowing.

    (if you're a visual person... here's a link to the Otto cycle) Animated Engines, Four Stroke

    One thing I think you're also forgetting... the PSI in the intake tract is measured at the turbo outlet... not in the heads. Resistance, flow, and heat will always change that number by the time you get past the valves. A more efficient turbo will always have less resistance more flow and less heat when it's in it's "sweet spot"... like Donkey is talking about with his 16g-xt vs a TD04.
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  7. #66
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    One thing I think you're also forgetting... the PSI in the intake tract is measured at the turbo outlet... not in the heads.
    I think this is the key point I'm missing...

    ...so now my question - why don't they :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by T0rque View Post
    sorry sir... just my opinion tho..
    No need to be sorry ... should have added a

    This is probably the most threadjacked thread I have ever posted, but it is quite OK. The flow of info is quite useful / entertaining.
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    Maybe it would be beneficial to split the thread in 2?

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    Buy the XT. If you don't... You'll be driving it for years thinking, "Ugh, I should have just spent the $255 years ago and enjoyed it since."

    It's not a perfect thought train, but has it's merits
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    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
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    I just spoke with Blouch in great detail about the three contenders for my turbo swap. The winner is ...

    The 19T upgrade. Unless I radically change the way I drive the WRX it really is the best choice. I have had the WRX for over 7 years now and know what I want out of it.

    Both 16Gs will have way more top end that I will really ever use or need. I'm told the non-XT 16G starts to spool up at 3500 to 3900 rpm. I know I will not be happy with that. The XT will be even worse. Yes, I know I will have the fuel capacity for a lot more turbo. I'd also like to keep my stock internals intact for a while.

    I was told the maximum flow rate is 480 cfm for the 19T and the 16G would be 510 - 515. Those figures are right from the builder of both turbos.

    There is this discussion as well that seems to indicate great things about the 19T: TD04 19T Upgrade Discussion - NASIOC
    Last edited by Sasquatch; 07-05-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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    Registered User Heide264's Avatar
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    Haven't read much about the 19T. I'm sure it'll be a nice boost compared to the stock one though =). Let us know your impressions of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex
    He was throwing balloons filled with sulfuric acid and shrapnel at the swat team. They finally had to take him down with rubber bullets.
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    Moderator Donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    Both 16Gs will have way more top end that I will really ever use or need. I'm told the non-XT 16G starts to spool up at 3500 to 3900 rpm. I know I will not be happy with that. The XT will be even worse. Yes, I know I will have the fuel capacity for a lot more turbo. I'd also like to keep my stock internals intact for a while.
    I'm just curious what they are referencing too. My 16G-XT in third gear will hit 20+psi by around 3600-3700rpm. A normal 16G can do that around 3200-3300rpm. 19T will still be a fun turbo!
    Last edited by Donkey; 07-05-2011 at 02:43 PM.
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  14. #73
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    I've seen decent things about the 19T - it's a good medium on the MHI side...

    ...but why the hell aren't you getting an IHI turbo???
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  15. #74
    Registered Whippersnapper mustangtx63's Avatar
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    How many miles are you at on the WRX, Bill?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangtx63 View Post
    How many miles are you at on the WRX, Bill?

    I'll probably have just passed 60k miles at the time of the install.

    Arrived today. They are purdy ...



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