Fuel pump, injectors, TGV deletes and TD04 19T - Page 4
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This is a discussion on Fuel pump, injectors, TGV deletes and TD04 19T within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by T0rque Your going to retune anyway.. I would go with the 16g as well.. Yea it's another ...

  1. #46
    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T0rque View Post
    Your going to retune anyway.. I would go with the 16g as well.. Yea it's another 255 but worth it
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  3. #47
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvin787878 View Post
    The turbo thing to me is all new. If thats the case then what is the point of one turbo being able to push more cfm's than another? Am I way off in my thoughts?
    nope, you're right - the fact is, at 8psi, a massive GT40 on its way to spooling up will make more power at 3500 than a maxxed out 21psi td04...


    I just don't get it physically, is all... it makes no sense
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  4. #48
    Registered User metaldahlberg's Avatar
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    From my understanding a big turbo with its big housing will need to flow more air than a smaller turbo to sustain a certain boost pressure.

    Pounds per square inch..... The larger cross sectional area of the bigger turbine housing requires more air flow to sustain a given pressure than a small turbine housing.

    Think of it terms of water for example, a very small hose, say the size of a straw wont need as much water flow to achieve a certain pressure as a garden hose.

    So a td04 sustaining 18psi is not moving as much air per unit time as a larger turbo, whatever it may be. So 18 psi is not equivalent in every turbo. To think that is just silly.
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  5. #49
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldahlberg View Post
    From my understanding a big turbo with its big housing will need to flow more air than a smaller turbo to sustain a certain boost pressure.

    Pounds per square inch..... The larger cross sectional area of the bigger turbine housing requires more air flow to sustain a given pressure than a small turbine housing.

    Think of it terms of water for example, a very small hose, say the size of a straw wont need as much water flow to achieve a certain pressure as a garden hose.

    So a td04 sustaining 18psi is not moving as much air per unit time as a larger turbo, whatever it may be. So 18 psi is not equivalent in every turbo. To think that is just silly.
    Naturally - but boost is measured in the intake manifold (which is constant, whatever your turbo), not inside the turbo. For flow to happen, you need a source and a sink - it just doesn't make sense that changing the source, without changing the sink, changes the sink somehow :/
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  6. #50
    Registered User metaldahlberg's Avatar
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    I don't see what the problem is. The intercooler, intake and manifold, I think, will generally be able to flow pretty well. So I think the real variable is the turbo. If you are providing more air per unit time with a better/bigger turbo more air will flow through the rest of the air tract. It's not as if the rest of the intake system is maxed out by a td04 at 20psi. So more air from turbo means more air for everything. The engine is consuming more air at that point.
    Last edited by metaldahlberg; 07-04-2011 at 05:37 PM.
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I'm already $pending more than I wanted to. The XT is another $255.
    The XT is a much better turbo. It'll spool the same or faster than blouch's old 16g, but give you a decent bit more power.
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  8. #52
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poly_poly-man View Post
    well, for a fixed VE, a fixed-size intake manifold, etc... how can more air flow through a hole that's constant in two cases with identical pressures?
    it can't. You fixed the variable. VE. Volumetric Efficiency. Different size turbos will have different pressures where they're more efficient. If you're more efficient, there is less friction. There is less heat produced. There are more CFM's flowing... and therefore more power.
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  9. #53
    Moderator T0rque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    You too? Everyone loves spending my $.
    sorry sir... just my opinion tho..


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  10. #54
    Moderator T0rque's Avatar
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    this thread makes my head hurt.


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  11. #55
    Registered User irvin787878's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    There are more CFM's flowing... and therefore more power.
    pretty much what i was getting at
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  12. #56
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    eerk, it's still not making sense.

    Let's just say for a minute that your turbo is compressing a totally sealed box (or, somehow, your turbo is working, but your intake valves are all closed for some reason). at 38psia, and a fixed temperature, PV=nRT - you can't escape that - this means that you'll get a fixed mass of air, no matter what's compressing it.

    No obviously, the case is different, since there's flow, but it seems like this is a good approximation, until the intake valve opens. At that point, the pressure difference (multiplied by the area open) causes a force, that can accelerate a certain mass of air (fixed volume, no matter what, unless the temperature is different, etc.) through the hole.

    Where does the airflow capability come into this (unless MAP drops significantly every intake stroke ???)
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  13. #57
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    it can't. You fixed the variable. VE. Volumetric Efficiency. Different size turbos will have different pressures where they're more efficient. If you're more efficient, there is less friction. There is less heat produced. There are more CFM's flowing... and therefore more power.
    I'm talking VE of the engine - which, as I'm aware, does not change for a different turbo (or else speed density wouldn't work, right?)...

    You're right about the compressor efficiency, to a point, but that's not the main change. It is certainly possible to find two turbos, run them at the same efficiency and pressure (but different airflows), and see a massive change in power...

    I get that the greater the volume (well, really mass, but for the sake of the CFM comparison) of air you push into an engine, the more power. I'm just wondering HOW, with the same pressure, you can get more air to go in?
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  14. #58
    Registered User metaldahlberg's Avatar
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    A sealed box is not a good approximation of a flow path. The air is going into the engine. A bigger turbo at 18 psi puts more air into the engine than a smaller turbo at 18psi. You are over thinking it. You are not taking into account that the engine is consuming the extra air.
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  15. #59
    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaldahlberg View Post
    A sealed box is not a good approximation of a flow path. The air is going into the engine. A bigger turbo at 18 psi puts more air into the engine than a smaller turbo at 18psi. You are over thinking it. You are not taking into account that the engine is consuming the extra air.
    exactly. My question is.... HOW? How does the engine take in more air???

    I'm not trying to argue - I'm just really confused
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  16. #60
    Registered User metaldahlberg's Avatar
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    I assume that would come from tuning the valve timing.
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