Fuel pump, injectors, TGV deletes and TD04 19T - Page 2
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This is a discussion on Fuel pump, injectors, TGV deletes and TD04 19T within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by Mikie13 My guess is 650cc's based on the 6, 5, and 0 in the part number Google ...

  1. #16
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13
    My guess is 650cc's based on the 6, 5, and 0 in the part number

    Google also provides pretty good results
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    Registered User jd92677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c2bcoolwrx View Post
    You are wrong. Just b/c a turbo is running at the same PSI does not mean it is pushing the same amount of air/cfm. A smaller turbo at a higher PSI can easily be outflowed by a larger turbo at a lower PSI. Thus, even though a Tdo4 will hit 21PSI at 3k and a 16G will be at ~18PSI at 3k the 16g will outflow the Tdo4 and make more power.

    So even though the larger turbo will take longer to hit XX PSI it will still make more power at a lower PSI at the same RPM. Of course this is for a reasonably larger turbo and would not apply if your were to compare a TD04 to 30r, b/c of course a 30r will have a lot of lag and feel like crap at the lower Rpms b/c it is too big of a turbo for a 2.0/autox.
    This physically doesn't make sense, but we're off topic so I concede
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    Registered User c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    I agree with you, I'd rather have less peak power but more down low than the opposite. I don't race enough to need all my power at 6k RPM.
    That would only happen if you went w/a MUCH bigger turbo. A 16G is still a small turbo and has great lowend response and is great for autoX. Also, how often are you below 3000rpm anyway? Rarely, even when dowshifting for a turn on the course you should still be at or above 3k. Thus, lag should not be an issue with a 16g on a 2.0L.

    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    This physically doesn't make sense, but we're off topic so I concede
    Actually, I don't think we are off topic at all and this is an excellent discussion. I am sorry I cannot explain it more clearly for you, but I am unsure of what you are confused about b/c I thought I explained it fairly well. Maybe someone else can chime in here?
    Last edited by c2bcoolwrx; 07-01-2011 at 02:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c2bcoolwrx View Post
    Also, how often are you below 3000rpm anyway?
    Like I said I don't race so I'm below 3k (ok maybe 4k ) rpm about 80% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by c2bcoolwrx View Post
    Actually, I don't think we are off topic at all and this is an excellent discussion. I am sorry I cannot explain it more clearly for you, but I am unsure of what you are confused about b/c I thought I explained it fairly well. Maybe someone else can chime in here?
    What I don't understand is that pressure is the amount of air in a given space, so if you have less pressure in the same space, how can you have more air at the same time? There is pressure because the engine can't "injest" the air as fast as the turbo is feeding, thus pressure. I agree that the ceiling of the volume of air is higher with a bigger turbo and at higher RPM a bigger turbo has the ability to maintain pressure longer, but at the same RPM higher pressure means more air, no matter the compressor.
    Last edited by jd92677; 07-01-2011 at 02:52 PM.
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677
    Like I said I don't race so I'm below 3k (ok maybe 4k) rpm about 80% of the time.
    You have the VF52; with a TD04, you might achieve a higher PSI at a given RPM, but you'd be producing less power. Same logic.
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    Registered User c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    Like I said I don't race so I'm below 3k (ok maybe 4k) rpm about 80% of the time.
    Even so. You really need to drive a Wrx or Sti w/a turbo upgrade and you will be amazed at the difference in power. I used to think just like you, then I drove my friend's '04 WRX with an EVo3 16g and was amazed at how much better it was at any RPM than my stage 2 '05 Wrx. Now that I have a hybrid swap/2.5L w/18g my buddy is amazed at how much faster my car is at any point in the powerband.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    You have the VF52; with a TD04, you might achieve a higher PSI at a given RPM, but you'd be producing less power. Same logic.
    So all things being equal, a td04 at 20psi will produce less power than a vf52 at 20psi?

    Quote Originally Posted by c2bcoolwrx View Post
    Even so. You really need to drive a Wrx or Sti w/a turbo upgrade and you will be amazed at the difference in power. I used to think just like you, then I drove my friend's '04 WRX with an EVo3 16g and was amazed at how much better it was at any RPM than my stage 2 '05 Wrx. Now that I have a hybrid swap/2.5L w/18g my buddy is amazed at how much faster my car is at any point in the powerband.
    My car is too fast already, but I believe you on that
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    So all things being equal, a td04 at 20psi will produce less power than a vf52 at 20psi?

    My car is too fast already, but I believe you on that
    Yes. And a 18g at 20psi will make more power than a vf52 at 20psi. LOL, too fast for now. Then, you get used to it and the mod bug hits again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c2bcoolwrx View Post
    Yes. And a 18g at 20psi will make more power than a vf52 at 20psi.
    If thats true I'm going to dismiss it as one of those things that are fact and I have no idea why which doesn't happen often so thanks a lot!!
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    Registered User c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    If thats true I'm going to dismiss it as one of those things that are fact and I have no idea why which doesn't happen often so thanks a lot!!
    Think of it this way a 4 cylinder engine at 4k will make less power than a v8 at 4k. Think of a turbo as a fan (huge oversimplification) a huge ceiling fan will push a larger volume (CFM) of air at the same speed (PSI) then a tiny portable fan spinning at the same speed.

    Ok, I am done....as if you don't get it now I am at a loss.
    Last edited by c2bcoolwrx; 07-01-2011 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    Like I said I don't race so I'm below 3k (ok maybe 4k ) rpm about 80% of the time.



    What I don't understand is that pressure is the amount of air in a given space, so if you have less pressure in the same space, how can you have more air at the same time? There is pressure because the engine can't "injest" the air as fast as the turbo is feeding, thus pressure. I agree that the ceiling of the volume of air is higher with a bigger turbo and at higher RPM a bigger turbo has the ability to maintain pressure longer, but at the same RPM higher pressure means more air, no matter the compressor.
    You're thinking of it in a different manner.

    Pressure is a measure of restriction, not air flow. That is why you can have more air flowing through with less air pressure. Pressure in terms of Boost because the higher the air pressure, the more air molecules there can be present and tighter packed the air molecules are as well. Now if a turbocharger is running a higher pressure and out of the efficiency range of the turbocharger, it can be producing more heat than its power capability.
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    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
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    Damn ... this thread took off!

    I was also thinking about a Blouch TD05H-16G. I will not go any bigger than that.

    The pump is in. I was pleasantly surprised how clean the pump assembly was when it first came out of the tank.



    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    Are you still running SCCA events? Look closely at the existing rules for the class you are in and try to get an idea of what changes people might have in mind. If you go every other weekend so to speak you may not like where a turbo will land you, or it may change your schedule (first class, last class, get up earlier, leave later etc.) so consider that.

    See if you can figure out what new cars are coming out and where they might be classed, it might give you an idea of what's in store for your existing or new-turbo-upgrade class. The newsletters are decent info sources too, especially the correspondence since people ask questions like this all the time.
    My previous mods already put me in SM. I have not been out this year and only did 1 event last year. The WRX is over 7 years old now - I want to be more kind to it as it approaches middle age. I plan on autoxing some more, just not nearly every event like I did in 2006 - 08.
    Last edited by Sasquatch; 07-01-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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    Registered User jd92677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KronosPerformance View Post
    You're thinking of it in a different manner.

    Pressure is a measure of restriction, not air flow. That is why you can have more air flowing through with less air pressure. Pressure in terms of Boost because the higher the air pressure, the more air molecules there can be present and tighter packed the air molecules are as well. Now if a turbocharger is running a higher pressure and out of the efficiency range of the turbocharger, it can be producing more heat than its power capability.
    OK, I spent some time reading and looking at formulas and I think I'm getting it, see if I'm correct I was assuming that boost is the result of the turbo producing more air than the engine can use, resulting in pressure. If that is not the case then I understand. Please tell me this is the case, otherwise it's going to drive me crazy until it clicks. If I'm wrong, no need to re-explain everything, I've understood what everyone has been saying but there is something missing in the explanation that is not allowing it to click in my head and I'll get it eventually.

    Sorry sasquatch for being off-topic, my fault but I have to get this through my head
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    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    Sorry sasquatch for being off-topic, my fault but I have to get this through my head
    No worries. I am enjoying the discussion.

    You bastages have given me more to think about. At this point I am 96% certain I will be going with the Blouch TD05H-16G. You all suck! (not really). Thanks for making me $pend more $.
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  16. #30
    ClubWRX.net Vendor adam@kronosperformance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd92677 View Post
    OK, I spent some time reading and looking at formulas and I think I'm getting it, see if I'm correct I was assuming that boost is the result of the turbo producing more air than the engine can use, resulting in pressure. If that is not the case then I understand. Please tell me this is the case, otherwise it's going to drive me crazy until it clicks. If I'm wrong, no need to re-explain everything, I've understood what everyone has been saying but there is something missing in the explanation that is not allowing it to click in my head and I'll get it eventually.

    Sorry sasquatch for being off-topic, my fault but I have to get this through my head
    Youre on the right track. If you have more questions feel free to pm me.
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