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This is a discussion on AEM vs. Cobb intake system questions within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by mattsmith87 and that the company protects my motor and would fight for and with me against a ...

  1. #61
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsmith87 View Post
    and that the company protects my motor and would fight for and with me against a money hungry dealership.
    The money hungry dealership may or may not be correct though... Why would a dealership want to support an imitation or unauthorized part? Also keep in mind, Magnuson Moss helps firms that produce unauthorized parts while ostensibly (and only ostensibly) helping the consumer. Here's an example; if you'd like, let's walk through it:

    You: My rear differential is leaking.
    Dealer: You have an unauthorized widget in the nose of your car. We will not authorize repairs.
    You: But Magnuson Moss says XXX and it's up to you to prove the two are connected.
    Dealer: Go pound sand.
    You: But the maker of the widget has an 800 number. I can call them toll free and they will spring into action and come to my rescue.
    Dealer: Go pound sand.

    Then what? You can the aftermarket company, they spring into action, and your car gets fixed... when? By whom? What are you driving while the cavalry is still en route?

    Magnuson Moss was never convincing as a means of consumer protection. It's seemed to have worked fine to protect aftermarket (read: unauthorized) parts makers. However, I can't quite figure out a mechanism to bridge the gap between a consumer stuck with a broken car that has an unauthorized part, and the Act getting that car fixed.
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  3. #62
    Registered User mudferret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsmith87 View Post
    06/07 as I was thinking about picking up an 06/07 in the not-too-distant future. Makes me think about getting an 05 Rex now.
    It's not THAT bad.
    ...Rob.
    MMVI WRX - VF43 Airboy Tuned @ 3500'

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudferret View Post
    It's not THAT bad.
    Compared to the 2L cars I think the power delivery is improved even for those years (but I have not driven a lot of them - maybe someone that drives them all every day can tell the difference better).

    EDIT: I need to have an unrelated, non-automotive item serviced. This got me thinking about Magnuson Moss some more. At this point I think it's a complete slap in the face of manufacturers, in that it basically says "we just don't care about your intellectual property at all, if you want to sell here, you will tolerate imitation parts." It was probably not intended and certainly not presented in those terms I'm sure.

    What got me thinking in those terms is that I realise that if the dealer to whom I am sending this non-automotive item were to find unauthorized parts installed, one of two things would happen: they'd send the item back to me untouched, or they would summarily install the correct parts and bill me. In fact, even if they found authentic parts installed, but from another model, they could/would simply remove them, and bill me for installing the correct authorized authentic parts. They would of course be within their rights to do so either way. The auto industry is not afforded the same protection it seems. Very odd how things work out some times with laws.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 06-21-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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    The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. Ernest Hemingway
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    The money hungry dealership may or may not be correct though... Why would a dealership want to support an imitation or unauthorized part? Also keep in mind, Magnuson Moss helps firms that produce unauthorized parts while ostensibly (and only ostensibly) helping the consumer. Here's an example; if you'd like, let's walk through it:

    You: My rear differential is leaking.
    Dealer: You have an unauthorized widget in the nose of your car. We will not authorize repairs.
    You: But Magnuson Moss says XXX and it's up to you to prove the two are connected.
    Dealer: Go pound sand.
    You: But the maker of the widget has an 800 number. I can call them toll free and they will spring into action and come to my rescue.
    Dealer: Go pound sand.

    Then what? You can the aftermarket company, they spring into action, and your car gets fixed... when? By whom? What are you driving while the cavalry is still en route?

    Magnuson Moss was never convincing as a means of consumer protection. It's seemed to have worked fine to protect aftermarket (read: unauthorized) parts makers. However, I can't quite figure out a mechanism to bridge the gap between a consumer stuck with a broken car that has an unauthorized part, and the Act getting that car fixed.
    Call me direct. 1-800-858-3333 ext. 4084. At least for K&N and AEM (from talking with their guys), we'll step in and fight for you.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsmith87 View Post
    Call me direct. 1-800-858-3333 ext. 4084. At least for K&N and AEM (from talking with their guys), we'll step in and fight for you.
    I don't use unauthorized parts on my car when it's under warranty.

    On a more general level, the question is: How does this translate into getting a car fixed? When? By whom? What does the owner drive while the unauthorized part maker and the dealer are arguing?

    Contrast that scenario with an idealized scenario involving authentic parts: the customer drops off the car, picks up a loaner, the car is fixed by the dealer, the customer gets a phone call etc.

    Contrast that scenario with a sadly realistic scenario again involving authentic parts: the customer is blown off even though there are no imitation parts on the car (this has and will happen sad to say). With dealers denying claims that are entirely legitimate and the cars are correct, what are the chances that same dealer will go along with a third party and their parts?

    If dealers were ideal and aftermarket parts were ideal and service was ideal, I suppose MM Act would help the consumer.

    I think you see what I'm getting at: the idea is a positive step for your customers but I don't know exactly how practical it might be should the need arise to use those resources. My guess is not very practical at all.

    EDIT: I have strayed way off and apologize to the OP. My response to the original question is still "neither" but that's no secret at this stage. Sorry Skudda33, I hope my rambling will at least hint at why I feel the way I do and hope it helps somehow. Take it as a different opinion from the mainstream I suppose.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 06-21-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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    The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. Ernest Hemingway
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  7. #66
    Registered User mudferret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    Compared to the 2L cars I think the power delivery is improved even for those years (but I have not driven a lot of them - maybe someone that drives them all every day can tell the difference better).
    This thread sure has taken some interesting twists/turns now :-)

    I love my car (2.5L), but the stock tune looks downright scary on a dyno and a wideband. The Cobb baseline dyno plot of a 2011 STI illustrates well how the power spikes, then drops off quickly at ~4k rpm. I've seen the same behaviour on stock 06 WRX's as well, and the result is that timing is pulled at that point. Whether this can do damage at an otherwise stock level, I'm not sure. I'd hesitate to give the car any opportunity to run any leaner at that point however.
    ...Rob.
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  8. #67
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    So it would be interesting to see (on someone else's car...) what an intake did to afr at those rpms.
    WRX Info Links, Courtesy TheJ
    The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. Ernest Hemingway
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    I don't use unauthorized parts on my car when it's under warranty.

    On a more general level, the question is: How does this translate into getting a car fixed? When? By whom? What does the owner drive while the unauthorized part maker and the dealer are arguing?
    I don't know the inner working of those details but we have an entire department dedicated to just this kind of scenario. They would be able to answer your questions regarding this issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    EDIT: I have strayed way off and apologize to the OP. My response to the original question is still "neither" but that's no secret at this stage. Sorry Skudda33, I hope my rambling will at least hint at why I feel the way I do and hope it helps somehow. Take it as a different opinion from the mainstream I suppose.
    I was about to post the same thing, saying we can continue this conversation elsewhere if people would like to. I will say, this is quite possibly one of the most polite forums I've ever been on. Well done chaps!

    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    So it would be interesting to see (on someone else's car...) what an intake did to afr at those rpms.
    That would be interesting to see, though there are many other variables to consider aside from AFR. The car's mileage, maintenance history, atmospheric conditions, etc. would all have to be accounted for. To get a better reading, multiple cars should be used and that many variables across that many different vehicles would require some careful consideration and attention to particulars to avoid chasing a rabbit into oblivion.

  10. #69
    Registered User wrx_yfz's Avatar
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    going back to the Original Topic- is there some sort of shield you can make or buy to cover the AEM CAI? i just bought this and it's currently in the mail and all my friends are worried im going to get hydrolock, i live in New Hampshire so we get a decent amount of rain but nothing crazy. do you really have to pull over when it rains and take out the tubing?
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  11. #70
    Registered User wrx650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx_yfz View Post
    going back to the Original Topic- is there some sort of shield you can make or buy to cover the AEM CAI? i just bought this and it's currently in the mail and all my friends are worried im going to get hydrolock, i live in New Hampshire so we get a decent amount of rain but nothing crazy. do you really have to pull over when it rains and take out the tubing?
    Hydrolock shouldn't be a problem. I just installed mine about a month ago and it seems pretty well protected in the wheel well. You would be driving through like 2+ feet of water and would have numerous problems on your hands at that point.
    -Noah

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  12. #71
    Registered User Ruh Roh's Avatar
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    Dont be silly wrap your..intake

    AEM Pre-Filters - Air Filter Wraps
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  13. #72
    Registered User Ruh Roh's Avatar
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    Also old thread is old.
    Marky Mark
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  14. #73
    Registered User wrx650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruh Roh View Post
    Dont be silly wrap your..intake

    AEM Pre-Filters - Air Filter Wraps
    I've been meaning to get one of these. Even if it doesn't protect against water, it will keep the filter a bit cleaner.
    -Noah

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  15. #74
    Registered User Ruh Roh's Avatar
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    yea its not going to be water proof but better than nothing
    Marky Mark
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  16. #75
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruh Roh View Post
    yea its not going to be water proof but better than nothing
    Do they add restriction to airflow?
    - Will
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