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This is a discussion on AEM vs. Cobb intake system questions within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I almost bought an intake a few times but it's hard to justify the cost of one for the very ...

  1. #31
    Registered User Eric05mx's Avatar
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    I almost bought an intake a few times but it's hard to justify the cost of one for the very minor performance gains. Might as well save up another 300 bucks to buy a down pipe and run a stage 2 tune.
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  3. #32
    Registered User patrick4588's Avatar
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    i agree with that! I will be buying the cobb intake with intake box, but it will be after i get my downpipe, up pipe, and catback exhaust. i plan to put on a inlet tube and maf hose as well.

  4. #33
    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric05mx View Post
    I almost bought an intake a few times but it's hard to justify the cost of one for the very minor performance gains. Might as well save up another 300 bucks to buy a down pipe and run a stage 2 tune.


    Certainly.. but if you're already at stage 4 levels then it starts becoming more appealing. I wouldn't be able to justify spending money on an intake for a car that's still on a stock turbo either.

  5. #34
    Registered User patrick4588's Avatar
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    I plan to stay on the stock turbo to keep things more reliable.

  6. #35
    Gold Member lokey's Avatar
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    Me, too... I'll be protuning, and adding a TMIC, EBCS and fuel pump, soon, but that's about as far as I plan to go.
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  7. #36
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    The only way you risk water ingestion is if you completely submerge the filter underwater, and I agree with the other guys here - if you drive through a puddle that deep you deserve it. Also, AEM offer's DryFlow prefilter wraps, which are nylon socks treated with a hydrophobic resin to repel splashes of water, mud etc. They only add about 2% restriction, so it's negligible but they aren't waterPROOF. They're water RESISTANT.

    In terms of performance gains from intakes, we need to talk restriction - how much energy your motor wastes trying to pull the air it needs through the intake system as your motor is going to draw the air it needs no matter what. OE manufacturers aren't interested in solely performance when they design an intake. They're trying to balance cost of manufacturing, quietness in the cabin, and performance. These three factors are trade-offs from one another; therefore the factory intake systems aren't the most performance oriented, and thus restrictive because they don't streamline airflow.

    When you install a performance intake (SRI or CAI) you remove the restriction from the factory system, streamline the airflow, and the sound volume from the intake system increases which is a pleasant side effect to the performance gains.

  8. #37
    Registered User jd92677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsmith87 View Post
    In terms of performance gains from intakes, we need to talk restriction - how much energy your motor wastes trying to pull the air it needs through the intake system as your motor is going to draw the air it needs no matter what. OE manufacturers aren't interested in solely performance when they design an intake. They're trying to balance cost of manufacturing, quietness in the cabin, and performance. These three factors are trade-offs from one another; therefore the factory intake systems aren't the most performance oriented, and thus restrictive because they don't streamline airflow.

    When you install a performance intake (SRI or CAI) you remove the restriction from the factory system, streamline the airflow, and the sound volume from the intake system increases which is a pleasant side effect to the performance gains.
    There is virtually zero performance gain from an intake on our cars. The intake is only a restriction well beyond stock levels.
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  9. #38
    U.S. Combat Veteran (3ID) Stu_Gotti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokey View Post
    Me, too... I'll be protuning, and adding a TMIC, EBCS and fuel pump, soon, but that's about as far as I plan to go.
    You say that now :] Haha!
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  10. #39
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    The factory intake system is a point of restriction no matter what. The degree to which that restriction affects performance (horsepower and acceleration) will differ from manufacturer to manufacturer, and even from model to model within a manufacturer, and also will differ depending on other modifications to the car. The case remains the same - restriction is present nonetheless.

    What most people fail to realize (not insinuating that you are "most people" jd92677) is that your car's computer is a big brain. It has miles and miles of logged data of what's an acceptable airflow rate is and the more miles you put on the car, the more data the computer accumulates. Let's use the illustration of an old man.

    We've all heard the saying "an old man stuck in his ways" who doesn't like change. The computer is an old man stuck in his ways as more miles accumulate. And when you change the rules for airflow, the old man sometimes complains and the performance gains may not be immediately noticed. What people need to do is give their cars 100-200 miles to adjust to the new airflow rates and then the performance gains will show themselves. Give the old man time to adjust and stop complaining

  11. #40
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsmith87 View Post
    The factory intake system is a point of restriction no matter what. The degree to which that restriction affects performance (horsepower and acceleration) will differ from manufacturer to manufacturer, and even from model to model within a manufacturer, and also will differ depending on other modifications to the car. The case remains the same - restriction is present nonetheless.
    On what data do you base any of this? We're dealing with one manufacturer here. Where are the data indicating the intake is a restriction? By whom were the data generated? With what methods? Are they statistically significant?

    As an aside, if jd92677 is not "most people" could you specify who is? The data are more important, but just in case the data don't show up this might at least be a point from which continue the conversation.
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  12. #41
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    SD_GR,

    I work for K&N doing tech support. It's my job to understand how intake systems work. The performance gains from an intake system are primarily from allowing the engine to be more efficient by streamlining airflow. Your motor is essentially a big air pump and the more efficiently the motor can move the air in and out, the more power you can make. It's conceptually quite simple really.

    My comment about "most people" was not directed at anyone in particular but rather a comment on a point that most of the people I've talked to miss about intake systems. I was emphasizing that it wasn't directed at jd92677 just to avoid any confusion that it might've been a personal attack. Text on a message board lacks emotion and can be interpreted in many ways so I wanted to over-communicate.

    And before anyone gets up in arms about me working for K&N, I'm not on this board in any official sense. K&N does not sponsor this forum, I'm not getting paid to be on here, and I don't care what intake system you decide to run on your Rex. I'm here because I like WRX's and will be getting one very soon. I want to see what other people have done with their cars, have a resource for information, and enjoy the online Rex community. From my job, I do have insight and information about intake systems and I want to share that as well when the opportunity presents itself.

  13. #42
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsmith87 View Post
    SD_GR,

    I work for K&N doing tech support. It's my job to understand how intake systems work. The performance gains from an intake system are primarily from allowing the engine to be more efficient by streamlining airflow. Your motor is essentially a big air pump and the more efficiently the motor can move the air in and out, the more power you can make. It's conceptually quite simple really.
    What performance gains?

    Instead of concepts why not discuss data? Again, where are the data proving the Subaru intake is restrictive? By whom were the data collected? Are they statistically significant? How many trials were run, under what conditions (and again, by whom...)? Did independent parties review the methods and the data? When? Where?

    I own a 2002 turbo Impreza. If that model isn't suitable, for what models are there data?

    From my job, I do have insight and information about intake systems and I want to share that as well when the opportunity presents itself.
    Great. Share it, I'd be interested.

    If something cannot be tested and the results cannot be reproduced, it is not science. It is at best philosophy (I'm leaving what it might be at worst out of an otherwise polite conversation...).
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  14. #43
    Good news, everyone! xxxxxxxAnub1s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    If something cannot be tested and the results cannot be reproduced, it is not science. It is at best philosophy (I'm leaving what it might be at worst out of an otherwise polite conversation...).
    Conjecture? I think that's far enough down the ladder of what it could be to remain civil.

    I would also be very interested to see the data regarding Subarus, if it exists that is. If you're able to provide that mattsmith, it would indeed be appreciated.

    So far, it still seems that intakes are not even remotely worth the money until quite far down the mod list.
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  15. #44
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anub1s View Post
    Conjecture? I think that's far enough down the ladder of what it could be to remain civil.

    I would also be very interested to see the data regarding Subarus, if it exists that is. If you're able to provide that mattsmith, it would indeed be appreciated.

    So far, it still seems that intakes are not even remotely worth the money until quite far down the mod list.
    That must have been what I had in mind, yes!...

    I don't object to intakes on other people's cars -- as far as I can work out even those that lack a CARB sticker aren't substantially affecting emissions (other stuff on those cars might be, but that's another story). For my motor, since the stock intake has been proven to support at least 30% more horsepower (as Subaru have used it in cars producing that much more) my main worry would be dirt entering the motor.

    The stock filter yields single digit ppm wear numbers with M1 oil after analysis. It's simply great.

    Some people are stuck using a non-Subaru intake -- I'm thinking of all those who chose an IC arrangement that won't allow the correct factory part to be retained. It'd be great if those people could use a unit with very good filtration I suppose (but then again those motors with FMICs may not be intended for 150K+ miles of use, I don't know). It would be interesting to see UOAs from a large number of motors +/- the factory intake and factory filter over their lifetime.
    WRX Info Links, Courtesy TheJ
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    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  16. #45
    Good news, everyone! xxxxxxxAnub1s's Avatar
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    I hear you, I'm all about the stock intake until it's absolutely necessary to replace it, and for me that likely won't ever come.

    I do see quite a few people who are dead set on FMIC's that intend to run the car into the ground, so I'm sure the UOAs exist for a myriad of conditions and part combinations. Seeing two or more exact cars with only differing intake systems would be a bit hard to find I think, though.
    Cody
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