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This is a discussion on Water/Methanol Injection FAQ within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; first question.. yes. Injecting meth into E85 isn't going to be beneficial. Both are alcohols. Methanol has more potential, but ...

  1. #16
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    first question.. yes. Injecting meth into E85 isn't going to be beneficial. Both are alcohols. Methanol has more potential, but not enough to warrant a meth injection into E85.

    You need to have a tune no matter how little or how much E85. I'd recommend to NEVER blend any fuels. Only E85 for your tune, or only gasoline. Study E85 up a bit, and you'll understand why. I personally am about to get an E85 tune, but I will have both an E85 and a gasoline tune. That way I can switch when I switch fuels.
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    E85 is pretty much everywhere here in the Midwest, and I have ran it in a turbo setup before with a custom ecu map just for it that was on a switch based system encase I was unable to get it for a refill.

    I never got knock out of it running 15 PSI of boost either.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmark View Post
    E85 is pretty much everywhere here in the Midwest, and I have ran it in a turbo setup before with a custom ecu map just for it that was on a switch based system encase I was unable to get it for a refill.

    I never got knock out of it running 15 PSI of boost either.
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    Am looking at this as when i took my car into get a quote for my dwnpipe we got talking about the cobb air intake flutter....whisping in and out when on boost periodically...i was told the only way to get around the issue was to get a alchohol injection system(50/50 blue windshied washer fluid)....he said its the stock computer retuning the knock and adjusting the boost to compensate for the fuel detonation etc........even though its accessport tuned for the intake you can not get rid of the fludder....so am looking into this mod and wondering how many peeps are running it and any issues....he said it can be ran with 91 or 94 octane doesn't matter and will make the engine run cooler(of course because of the alchohol) and help the engine in the long run...anyone??

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruthie
    Am looking at this as when i took my car into get a quote for my dwnpipe we got talking about the cobb air intake flutter....whisping in and out when on boost periodically...i was told the only way to get around the issue was to get a alchohol injection system(50/50 blue windshied washer fluid)....he said its the stock computer retuning the knock and adjusting the boost to compensate for the fuel detonation etc........even though its accessport tuned for the intake you can not get rid of the fludder....so am looking into this mod and wondering how many peeps are running it and any issues....he said it can be ran with 91 or 94 octane doesn't matter and will make the engine run cooler(of course because of the alchohol) and help the engine in the long run...anyone??

    Thanks
    That person is an idiot. WMI will do nothing towards wastegate flutter.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruthie View Post
    Am looking at this as when i took my car into get a quote for my dwnpipe we got talking about the cobb air intake flutter....whisping in and out when on boost periodically...i was told the only way to get around the issue was to get a alchohol injection system(50/50 blue windshied washer fluid)....he said its the stock computer retuning the knock and adjusting the boost to compensate for the fuel detonation etc........even though its accessport tuned for the intake you can not get rid of the fludder....so am looking into this mod and wondering how many peeps are running it and any issues....he said it can be ran with 91 or 94 octane doesn't matter and will make the engine run cooler(of course because of the alchohol) and help the engine in the long run...anyone??

    Thanks
    You got fed a whole bunch of BS throughout that, to sell you something you don't need at all.

    Wastegate flutter is just normal with these cars - some hear it better than others. It occurs very generally when you are at part throttle and low-mid RPM generally when the boost level is around the wasetgate spring pressure. It is just the wastegate flapping around sort of indecisively because being all the way open would produce more boost than the ecu is asking for and being all the way closed would produce too little. It is simply an annoying sound and not a problem at all.

    Knock on the other hand is a serious issue with boosted cars. The ECU compensates for it by adjusting timing, unless you are at a really bad extreme where it can actually pull boost. You should follow Cobb's instruction video and do a log. POst the results in a public google doc and link them here. If you are getting knock, your car needs a physical correction (e.g. stopping an air leak between the MAF and turbo) or your map needs a modification to timing or fueling etc.

    This whole "meth bandaid" stuff is straight BS. That is not the reason to run meth. Meth is for if you want more power from a car that is running correctly already. It allows more timing to be run, but it comes with serious risks on its own (e.g. running out of the stuff while doing a hard pull is instant death).
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  8. #22
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    You can also use water methanol injection with E85. You can run the two together. E85 is just a fuel. You have to use water methanol injection kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuanHarris
    You can also use water methanol injection with E85. You can run the two together. E85 is just a fuel. You have to use water methanol injection kit.
    There'd be little/no point to this.
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuanHarris View Post
    You can also use water methanol injection with E85. You can run the two together. E85 is just a fuel. You have to use water methanol injection kit.
    I'll bite.... but you have to prove me wrong.

    E85 is high on detonation resistance. Methanol is too. E100 is equivalent to 113octane, E85 is equivalent to 105octane (depending on source), Methanol (M100) is equivalent to 116octane.

    Adding 116 octane fuel to 91 octane fuel is totally worthwhile. Adding a small amount of 116 octane fuel to 105-113octane fuel doesn't seem to make any sense to me. You'll maybe increase effective octane 1-3points on E85.

    Water is used to cool the intake charge and reduce EGTs/Cyl temps. E85 already has VERY cool EGTs compared to gas, and the benefit of detonation resistance brought out by water in a gasoline engine just isn't there.

    E85 has a much lower BTU than methanol... which means you have to have a much richer AFR. The only reason to have methanol injection on a E85 car (in my opinion) is if you're maxing out your injectors and want more headroom.
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  11. #25
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    I have a Twin Turbo Subaru B4 Blitzen with a Snow Performance Methanol Injection Kit. The reason that I use it is that in Okinawa on base all they have is an 86 octane horrid gas. I only use winter mix windshield fluid and my car runs with no detonation and the computer throughs +16 degrees of timing, so I assume that it works. The car is tuned from the factory here in Japan to run 100RON or 93/4 Octane.

    I plan to sell my Blitzen and install the water meth kit on my new WRX...

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    Last edited by 2013GTRNate; 03-05-2013 at 03:35 AM.

  12. #26
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    Damn you Japan! You keep all the cool stuff for yourself!
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  13. #27
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    why do so many tuners shy away from doing meth injection? It seems like a good way to pick up some power and we don't have e85 here, so what's the problem. I've read all of the stickies and it seems there are plenty of safeguards... I don't get it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u
    why do so many tuners shy away from doing meth injection? It seems like a good way to pick up some power and we don't have e85 here, so what's the problem. I've read all of the stickies and it seems there are plenty of safeguards... I don't get it?
    Missed this earlier...

    It's another possible system to fail. With the availability of E85, a lot of tuners would prefer just to use a straight fuel vs fuel + injection system.
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  15. #29
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    I've heard there was a way you could assemble a similar type of system with parts from a hardware store. Was wondering if there was any shred of truth to this.
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    yes, you can. Google has a ton of info on people building DIY kits. The difference is that unless you are decent with circuits, you wont really be able to run a progressive setup unless you want to buy a controller from one of the companies and piece all the remaining parts together yourself. Its really nothing more than a pump, tubing and a nozzle.

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