Need urgent advice: New motor
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This is a discussion on Need urgent advice: New motor within the Engine Modifications forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I haven't been on here in a LOONNGGGG time and I don't have time to do much research! My motor ...

  1. #1
    Registered User UURX02's Avatar
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    Exclamation Need urgent advice: New motor

    I haven't been on here in a LOONNGGGG time and I don't have time to do much research! My motor is being replaced this week and I would really like to swap in an H4 2.5, but I need some guidance. My car was driven with NO oil and it fried EVERYTHING. (long story, explain later) I haven't modded my car in so long I feel like I'm out of the game, so anyone that could help please do! I will be spending a maximum 4K on this replacement. I'd really like to put in a 16g or maybe just a VF34 on a 2.0, but if I can get a 2.5 I'll just stick with the VF39. I dunno. anyone?
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    The price in your country are far higher (usually) then here.


    With a 4k budget I think you would be hard pressed to do the 2.5 with a turbo swap and tuning.

    You can get a 2.5 shortblock from subaru for under 1800 last I checked. You have another few hundred tied up in gaskets/waterpumps/misc. stuff. I assume you would be at around 2,500 at this point left over for turbo/tuning/labor. It could be done but I think that would/could stretch your budget depending on how much stuff you have to outsource. You might be able to get a few hundred for your killed ej205 which might help.

    Have you budgted out what a rebuild on the ej205 would be?
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    Registered User UURX02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi View Post
    The price in your country are far higher (usually) then here.


    With a 4k budget I think you would be hard pressed to do the 2.5 with a turbo swap and tuning.

    You can get a 2.5 shortblock from subaru for under 1800 last I checked. You have another few hundred tied up in gaskets/waterpumps/misc. stuff. I assume you would be at around 2,500 at this point left over for turbo/tuning/labor. It could be done but I think that would/could stretch your budget depending on how much stuff you have to outsource. You might be able to get a few hundred for your killed ej205 which might help.

    Have you budgted out what a rebuild on the ej205 would be?

    hey man , actually I live in Dallas. (Canadian in Dallas Ft.Worth) lol.

    but no man I haven't had the time to budget out anything really. This will be happening VERY quickly so I assumed the best thing would be to go with something new. If I were to rebuild the ej, how would you go about it? I'm trying to find threads of rebuilds right now. thanks for any help man i'm going crazy
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    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Most cost effective build will be a "hybrid build" Which is a 2.5 block with your ej20 heads. An EJ25 short block goes for between $1900-$2500. Then you have gaskets, checking the heads/valve job, installation at $80-$120 an hour unless you do it yourself. I'd install new injectors while I was there too. Remember its crucial not to replicate the mistake so first find out what happened and be sure its being remedied in the swap.

    Its rather tough to pin down an exact figure on these things, but if you did all the work yourself I'd bet:

    ~ $2200 for short block
    ~ $300 for gaskets
    ~ $400 for dyno tune
    ~ $400 for injectors
    ~ $500 for head inspection/valve job
    ~ $400 for OEM clutch and flywheel
    ~ $1000 new turbo
    ~ $400 for unexpected incidentals, oils etc

    ------------
    $5600 if you install

    If the shop does it add about $2000-$3000 for labor.

    Edit:
    Just read you ran without oil in everything....new turbo time. Dunno what your power goals are, but I want a td06h-16g 7cm^2 from deadbolt that is monster ported and coated. I think it is ~$1000.
    Last edited by 06wrx4me; 10-22-2008 at 10:04 AM.
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    Registered User UURX02's Avatar
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    wow thanks for the right up 06wrx that's awesome

    Yeah it's definitely new turbo time! I would like a turbo that big, but costs are already looking too high.

    You think my stock heads will be fine?

    what about the pistons/rods?
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    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UURX02 View Post

    You think my stock heads will be fine?
    Hard to say until you get them apart and inspected. I included that as a $500 expense in my quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by UURX02 View Post

    what about the pistons/rods?
    The EJ25 short block I specd at ~2200 comes with new pistons and rods.

    Yeah it's definitely new turbo time! I would like a turbo that big, but costs are already looking too high.
    Well the td06h-16g isn't really "that big of a turbo" meerly a very friendly, good spooling, rebuildable, DD turbo capable of ~330 WHP.

    FWIW a VF34 is ~$1000 as well and I would much rather have the 16g cause it is rebuildable.
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    Registered User UURX02's Avatar
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    ahhh, ok. thanks man I'm so clueless it's irritating.

    we'll see how much they charge me for the turbo. If the VF39 is above 500 I don't even want to know how much a 16 would be from them. Do you think I could perhaps pick up the 16g off gruppe - s or something and bring it in? Would they charge extra install costs due to an aftermarket turbo?

    oh and yeah subaru is installing this for me.
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    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UURX02 View Post
    ahhh, ok. thanks man I'm so clueless it's irritating.

    we'll see how much they charge me for the turbo. If the VF39 is above 500 I don't even want to know how much a 16 would be from them. Do you think I could perhaps pick up the 16g off gruppe - s or something and bring it in? Would they charge extra install costs due to an aftermarket turbo?

    oh and yeah subaru is installing this for me.
    If subaru is installing it all they will put in nothing but factory components. This means no aftermarket parts. No 2.5l block, No aftermarket turbo, No Vf39, No tuning. They will repair your car to factory specs, and charge you an arm and a leg for it.

    I imagine the dealers bill will be around $5000-$6000 for another stock ej20 bottom end, no new clutch and a factory td04l turbo. Oh and a brand new vf39 from subaru is like $1600.

    Personally Id take it somewhere else.
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    Ok I think I should chime in here...I just got done w/the 2.5L/EJ255 hybrid swap.

    1st rule: Do it once and do it right.
    2nd rule: Find a good/reputable shop that can do the build and tune (stay away from the stealership).
    3rd rule: If you want 300-350whp build it for 400-450whp so you can drive it hard on a regular.
    4th rule: Buy a little more turbo than you need (as you will always want more power, you can always run a little less boost and then retune and increase the boost later).

    So I would definitley throw a bigger TMIC, Walbro 255, DW 650cc injectors (or larger depending on turbo), Forged Pistons, new water pump, 2.5L oil pump, and if you want to pull hard to redline some cams.

    The quoted costs are right about there and do add up quickly. But, the turbo plays a huge factor. I would go with atleast a VF39 (used one should run no more than $400), but you should consider an 18g 8cm if you want better power for a daily driver. Skip the 16g if your doing a 2.5L, as its too small for the 2.5. A 16G which is the best DD turbo on a 2.0L spools like a 18G on a 2.5L (more or less).

    here is a link to my build thread on NASIOC: 2.5L Hybrid Build Done - NASIOC

    I did not do the build myself and my shop charged me $1400 for the build and $500 for the dyno/tune.

    Also, SBR makes some good built motors for a swap: Slowboy Racing, Inc. :: Subaru :: Engine :: Blocks :: EJ2057 STi Blocks :: SBR
    Last edited by c2bcoolwrx; 10-22-2008 at 12:36 PM.

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    Registered User UURX02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06wrx4me View Post
    If subaru is installing it all they will put in nothing but factory components. This means no aftermarket parts. No 2.5l block, No aftermarket turbo, No Vf39, No tuning. They will repair your car to factory specs, and charge you an arm and a leg for it.

    I imagine the dealers bill will be around $5000-$6000 for another stock ej20 bottom end, no new clutch and a factory td04l turbo. Oh and a brand new vf39 from subaru is like $1600.

    Personally Id take it somewhere else.
    just called the local cobb tuner and he's making some calls right now. thanks for the heads up
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    Registered User UURX02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c2bcoolwrx View Post
    Ok I think I should chime in here...I just got done w/the 2.5L/EJ255 hybrid swap.

    1st rule: Do it once and do it right.
    2nd rule: Find a good/reputable shop that can do the build and tune (stay away from the stealership).
    3rd rule: If you want 300-350whp build it for 400-450whp so you drive it hard on a regular.
    4th rule: Buy a little more turbo than you need (as you will always want more power, you can always run a little less boost and then retune and increase the boost later).

    So I would definitley throw a bigger TMIC, Walbro 255, DW 650cc injectors (or larger depending on turbo), Forged Pistons, new water pump, 2.5L oil pump, and if you want to pull hard to redline some cams.

    The quoted costs are right about there and do add up quickly. But, the turbo plays a huge factor. I would go with atleast a VF39 (used one should run no more than $400), but you should consider an 18g 8cm if you want better power for a daily driver. Skip the 16g if your doing a 2.5L, as its too small for the 2.5. A 16G which is the best DD turbo on a 2.0L spools like a 18G on a 2.5L (more or less).

    here is a link to my build thread on NASIOC: 2.5L Hybrid Build Done - NASIOC

    I did not do the build myself and my shop charged me $1400 for the build and $500 for the dyno/tune.

    Also, SBR makes some good built motors for a swap: Slowboy Racing, Inc. :: Subaru :: Engine :: Blocks :: EJ2057 STi Blocks :: SBR

    that's good stuff. thanks man. I really think i'll be fine with the vf39 for now. An ej25 itself is exciting
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    Registered User c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UURX02 View Post
    that's good stuff. thanks man. I really think i'll be fine with the vf39 for now. An ej25 itself is exciting
    Oh it definitely is. the 2.5L is a much nicer, smoother, and quieter engine than the 2.0L. Not to mention the extra torque. It will cost you but in the end you will enjoy your car even more than when you had a 2.0L.

    Just make sure to break it in properly. Here is what I did per my tuner/builder (by no means is this the only way to break a car in):

    1st 500-1000 miles with max of 4500rpms, max boost of 9PSI, and dyno oil for the initial break-in. During the 1st 1000 make sure to take it through the gears and get to that 4500rpms...do not stress it but drive it normally.

    After, the 1000 miles mark get your tune and change to 5w30 synthetic. Again drive it normally taking it through the gears and rpms. Don't downshift hard to a lower gear/high rpms. At 2000 miles another oil change of 5w30 synthetic. And now drive it like you stole it.

    Above all else do what your tuner/builder recommends.
    Last edited by c2bcoolwrx; 10-22-2008 at 01:58 PM.

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    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    I would caution you to stay away from Slow Boy Racing, they have a horrible reputation. There are plenty other short blocks available from other tuners.

    As for 16g, the one I spoke of is larger than a vf39 and will have a broader torque curve than an 18g, but an 18g is also a good choice.
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    Registered User c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06wrx4me View Post
    I would caution you to stay away from Slow Boy Racing, they have a horrible reputation. There are plenty other short blocks available from other tuners.

    As for 16g, the one I spoke of is larger than a vf39 and will have a broader torque curve than an 18g, but an 18g is also a good choice.
    Thats news to me. You have a link? or just is it just they are generally known as bad on the forums? 1 or 2 people recommended them to me when my motor went, but I went another route as I found a good local builder. Glad I did.

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    google is a simple tool:

    used STi block and various performance parts:
    NC: sti block and goodies - i-Club

    Pretty good deal on a used STi block that threw a rod....I'd seriously be looking at this one:
    Used sti 2.5L short block - IWSTI.com: Subaru WRX STI Forums

    Used STi block 1K
    05 STI Short Block - Tampa Racing

    2.5 block and a 2.0 block, various conditions, along with performance parts:
    05 STI Short Block - Tampa Racing

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