A quick question for audio upgrade in 2011 WRX

[sl8anic]

Please, PLEASE, look/search through this forum, tons of entries for this same topic

To summarize one of my own minor contribution (with tons of credit given to this, NASIOC and IWSTI forums):
1) If you have Premium or Limited trims - new HU is the best value, speakers are secondary, trust me;
2) Steering wheel controls, you can retain 99% functionality, see http://ae64.com;
3) No known way of keeping factory mic, after-market ones are easy to install;

Here's a start: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/interi...head-unit.html
Pinout info: http://ae64.com/20-pin-pinout.htm;
Harness info: http://ae64.com/20-pinfwdharness.htm ($12);
Related thread w/ info: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?t=2046854;
Related thread 2: http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-i-c-e...pioneer-3.html

[MagnumXL]

Can someone tell me if the doors still rattle on the '11 if you add a sub instead of using the door speakers for bass? I didn't have any issues with my '04 and the under seat sub, but the '11 door panels seem harder and they definitely rattle with the stock stereo once you turn the bass levels up to where you can actually hear some bass. I'm just wondering if I'll need Dynamat in the doors too or if I'll just need it in the trunk to quiet the catback at freeway speeds a bit (and any potential trunk rattle if I go with a trunk sub).

I have an Alpine 10" and 300 watt amp sitting the garage I could use, but I don't want major rattle problems (I don't really need thunk/rattle bass; I was happy with the output of the '04 seat sub, but the Alpine did sound good when I had it in my old '93 ProbeGT). I'm thinking the seat sub would save me trunk space and probably avoid as much potential for new rattles. If I did use the Alpine, I'd probably move it to an Audio Integrations box to keep a nice "OEM" look (photos I've seen look better than Subaru's trunk sub and this would do a lot better).

As for a HU, I'm currently looking at the Sony 660BT kit with BT and Backup Camera (it has integrated Tom-Tom NAVI). I've seen very few comments on this unit (or the related 770BT; I prefer the real volume knob on the 660) as a whole when searching and I don't know if the BT controls on the steering wheel will work with it or not. I assume I'll have to run a new USB cable to the center console since I still don't see any adapters available for it (although some have apparently figured out how to wire their own).

[sl8anic]

Short answer - yes. Searching on interior forums for "door rattle" turns-up a lot results for 2011 MY. Chief suspects are a white spacer box in the door panel underneath/behind door arm rest and un/miss-attached speaker wiring bundle in the doors.

[WRXpower17]

Came across this the other day, might be an idea for some of you '11 guys.

New OEM Radio Installed into MY11 WRX: Source MY11 Forester - NASIOC

If only this wasn't so expensive

[mustangtx63]

If only this wasn't so expensive

Yeah, true... If you can find one on craigslist or ebay, that seems to be the cheapest route. That OEM piece just looks so clutch...

[WRXpower17]

Yeah, true... If you can find one on craigslist or ebay, that seems to be the cheapest route. That OEM piece just looks so clutch...

Seriously. I'm picking up my 2011 WRX this weekend (supposed ETA), and would love to upgrade the sound system, but dont really feel like putting in aftermarket. That OEM HU looks awesome. I'll be searching craigslist and ebay like crazy.

[2010wrxhatch]

See my lstest install posted today Alpine INA-W900BT/Imprint/SIR-ALP/PDX-5/CDT Braxial set front rear w/upstage front/Perfect Fit 10" sub box with JL W3V3. The system sounds great and did not imprint yet. I have had many many high dollar systems in my Speed3 had W505/PXA-H700/ED dual EV-10"s/(2) JL 500/1, 1-JL 300/2, JL 2150, A100 center channel amp, CDT euro sports 3-way front and HD rears, Alpine single Din Center, Head rest monitors and this new system sounds just as good, maybe not as loud, but just as good.

[MagnumXL]

I just got the Subaru under-seat sub installed and I think it does the job just fine for my needs. It won't shake the trunk, but that's a good thing in many respects. It does put out more than adequate bass for most rock music . No, it's not the same as my two home systems (one with a $1500 sub), but it's not bad for a car environment. The less sympathetic vibrations you create, the less you have to try to dampen later. Most of my door rattles are gone now since the door speakers don't have to reproduce any deep bass and the mid-range and treble sound fine without the HU having to use all its power for bass output. There's a bulletin out for the door spacers, though and my dealer has the new replacement ones on order now. I'll still be replacing the HU soon with a Sony BT660 with TomTom, but that's more for the navigation. The trunk cargo mat isn't an issue using the under-seat sub either. You can adjust the relative bass output for the sub with a small flat-head on the sub-unit. Obviously, using a dedicated sub-out on an after-market HU would simplify things and the bass controls wouldn't affect the sub as they do with the stock HU.

I don't hear any overdriven distortion thus far (like some of the people that got the trunk kicker model complained about, but this unit isn't pretending to be a much larger sub than it is and it's not fighting the rear seat and trunk lid (on the sedan) to get to the listener either).

[sl8anic]

Which underseat sub? From previous MY's?

I just got the Subaru under-seat sub installed and I think it does the job just fine for my needs. It won't shake the trunk, but that's a good thing in many respects. It does put out more than adequate bass for most rock music . No, it's not the same as my two home systems (one with a $1500 sub), but it's not bad for a car environment. The less sympathetic vibrations you create, the less you have to try to dampen later. Most of my door rattles are gone now since the door speakers don't have to reproduce any deep bass and the mid-range and treble sound fine without the HU having to use all its power for bass output. There's a bulletin out for the door spacers, though and my dealer has the new replacement ones on order now. I'll still be replacing the HU soon with a Sony BT660 with TomTom, but that's more for the navigation. The trunk cargo mat isn't an issue using the under-seat sub either. You can adjust the relative bass output for the sub with a small flat-head on the sub-unit. Obviously, using a dedicated sub-out on an after-market HU would simplify things and the bass controls wouldn't affect the sub as they do with the stock HU.

I don't hear any overdriven distortion thus far (like some of the people that got the trunk kicker model complained about, but this unit isn't pretending to be a much larger sub than it is and it's not fighting the rear seat and trunk lid (on the sedan) to get to the listener either).

[MagnumXL]

It's the current model they're selling (they ordered it from SOA). Whether that is identical to previous model years or not, I cannot say for certain. It's not easy to find information online from year to year. Some parts places have more than one model/price shown, but don't describe the differences.

I've seen a lot of talk on the subject, but I rarely see the advantages of the seat subwoofer described. For instance, an 8" should produce more accurate bass than a 10" all else being equal over the sames ranges that both can produce, but the 10" should go a bit lower. More power can overcome some limitations, but the simple fact is you lose output level the further you get from a speaker so a trunk driver will need more power relative to one sitting in the passenger cabin for the same size driver/cabinet. However, a hatchback will reinforce bass from a subwoofer, doubling your effective output relative to the same driver in a sedan (like getting double the effective power output for free, which due isn't quite as great as it sounds since linear sound is only 3dB per power doubling, which is barely noticeable to the ear (which hears in a non-linear, more logarithmic fashion, typically needing 10dB more output to 'sound' twice as loud). Corner reinforcement can also add up to another 3dB. In the real world, cabinet and driver sensitivity + magnet motor and throw also factor in for a given model (a flat seat sub probably won't have a large effective throw, for example).

In other words, I'd want to hear the Kicker 100 watt sub to compare. Somehow, I doubt it's much more capable despite a 10" driver given the distance coupled with the same relative low power, at least in a sedan (might do a bit better in the hatch). Clearly, a high-powered 10" or a 12" would put out a LOT more bass and go deeper, but it might also create more rattles, etc. (who hasn't heard large subs rattle the hell out of a trunk before?) and it may also play more muddled "one note" bass depending on its parameters and the environment its in. It all depends on what you want.

I had a 12" 300 watt Alpine setup (still sitting in my garage) and I had it installed in a ProbeGT hatchback with Alpine speakers all around the car and even with a lot of time spent tuning the parametric equalizer, the bass was always boomier sounding and created a lot of sympathetic vibrations and rattles that compromised the quality of the sound compared to my '04 WRX with the under-seat sub. OTOH, it could play 30Hz notes at full output that the under-seat could barely put out at all and it could play VERY loud if asked too (I dialed it back to sound more natural; I don't like it 'trunk flapping' loud at all). Very little rock music has 30Hz output, though so it didn't matter that much to me. I can listen to organ music or some electronica or whatever at home. I mostly like rock. It is fine on the under-seat at 'normal' volumes. If you want REALLY loud 40Hz, you will want a bigger sub.

[sl8anic]

I thought the new ones go into the trunk...

It's the current model they're selling (they had to order it from SOA). Whether that is identical to previous model years or not, I cannot say for certain. It looks the same to me visually.

[MagnumXL]

They offer both (under-seat is like $100 cheaper, I believe). If I were to go with a trunk sub at some point, I'd go with the Audio Integrations box and a 10" Alpine plus my 300 watt amp. It would do a lot better than the 100 watt Kicker and look a lot better installed, IMO.

[MagnumXL]

I've found more information on the under-seat sub sold by Subaru. There are two different models and they are made by Panasonic. The older model is 80 watts and doesn't have corrective negative feedback. The newer model is 120 watts and has a microphone with negative feedback to improve the effective bass output response (and it needs it gauging by the response curve).

Here's the spec sheet on the newer version:

http://smartdata.usbid.com/datasheet...aia0000ce1.pdf

I'm going to go do some actual frequency response testing using a test CD and sound meter and get a rough idea of how it actually performs (with and without bass control adjustments) at the listening location.

Edit:

Well, I ran some frequency response tests and the curve shown in the PDF is pretty much accurate, although you can adjust the crossover downward. I set it to cross around 90Hz where it blends in with the door panels (bass controls pretty much have the effect of increasing bass at the door speakers in the 100Hz range and only affect lower ranges in a bell fashion as you go up (needing +6 to +8 to make any real deeper bass effect and by then your 100Hz response is out of control).

I was able to set the system to an average level of 78dB (upper response appears relatively good with most tones within 3-4dB of each other, although it's affected by the cabin response when you move the meter around). I always like bass around +10dB in the 40Hz to 80Hz range and then ramping down to the rest of the range (works well for most material at home; completely flat sounds a little anemic, especially when you have a $1500 sub sitting there putting out 80dB that can do 120dB; but mid/highs become too loud as they approach 90dB for safe hearing. Hearing is A-weighted, but I use C-weighted for measurements (true value).

The net effect is at a 78dB average above 250Hz, I get about 70dB at 30Hz, 81dB at 40Hz, 91dB at 50Hz, 88dB at 60Hz and 84dB at 100Hz (after crossover adjustment), dropping to 80dB at 250Hz and then varying around 78dB the rest of the way. This gives me +/-5dB at 85dB level in the 40Hz-250Hz range an +/-4dB or so above that (didn't do extensive testing there as there's not much I can do anyway). I've seen larger peaks with better equipment at home that was a PITA to smooth out without equalization (i.e. placement or room treatment). The bass 'sounds' closer than it measure to the ear due to non-linear hearing, but that's with test tones. One assumes music is mixed for accurate playback, but in reality it's all over the place, especially with rock music.

More testing with test tones shows the amp can put out >90dB even at 30Hz even if driven hard at that frequency by itself and does considerably better at 40Hz. What that means is when I get the Sony BT660, I believe it has a parametric equalizer. That should allow me to bump the 30Hz response up to a more usable level and flatten the 50-80Hz region to match the 40Hz output and then get much flatter overall bass response without the need for a larger or more accurate sub (at non-ear splitting or mega-bass levels). Hopefully, I should be able to get +/- 2-3 dB response from 40-250Hz then and least some usable 30Hz output (clearly audible with test tones, but down about 12 dB from 40Hz; I should be able to get that up at least 4-6dB without killing the amp at reasonable volumes (i.e. windows up; it'd be crap with them down anyway with the SPT exhaust droning away).

[mangostick]

If I were to go with a trunk sub at some point, I'd go with the Audio Integrations box and a 10" Alpine plus my 300 watt amp. It would do a lot better than the 100 watt Kicker and look a lot better installed, IMO.

I'm pretty much running that setup right now, and its very pleasant.. AI enclosure,Rockford fosgate R1 10"sub (solid woofer without breaking bank) and a Kenwood KAC-5204 that I snapped up new for $70!! (150wX1 rms in bridged mode) have the sub crossed over at 80hz at the head unit (Pioneer avic F700bt) .. eq curve set to peak at 40hz and slope off toward 80-100hz range with f/r speaker x-over also set at 80hz. With the eq set as it is and the x-over points set same the slope in response makes a very nice transition without sucking away midbass response and making the music sound hollow. I listen mostly to rock/metal but its not uncommon for me to pop in some blues/jazz..flamenco guitar.. even classical music when the mood strikes. Lately I've been rather delighted with Beastie's new release (highly recommend btw.. they brought back the oldschool sound ) Even with lower power its a solid set up and I didn't have to run massive power/ground/speaker wiring so everything was easy to hide. The amp is small and dark grey in color.. fits perfectly under passenger seat and blends right in with the interior colors.

Somewhere in here I have a whole string of pics.. cant remember where though.

[MagnumXL]

Hmmm, it seems the site that told me which adjustment knob did what had them reversed. (that explains why the gain appeared to be at maximum and when I went for a ride the bass seemed worse than when I drove it yesterday (only adjusted crossover which was gain at 100Hz so I didn't realize it was actually lowering the overall volume a few dB). The response curve should be the same, though except at the top.

I'm going to go play with the controls again and see how it comes out. Those screws are really hard to get at, though since its slopes downward under the driver's seat and none of my screwdrivers seem to fit really well (small allen wrench seems to work better). Maybe one of my jeweler screwdrivers would fit it....