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This is a discussion on Low profile Subwoofer within the Electronics/Car Audio forums, part of the Interior Mods category; Originally Posted by 06scoobyrex +1 a stealthbox would be nice but they are 0!!! Well worth it IMO. I swear ...

  1. #16
    Captain James of the SS Impreza has gone down with the ship Drews's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06scoobyrex View Post
    +1
    a stealthbox would be nice but they are $750!!!
    Well worth it IMO. I swear by JL audio. It's a quality product and you're paying for a sweet setup.
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    I ran JL products for years.. didn't know what I was missing in sound quality until I switched over to a Eclipse. At first I thought it just the brand change.. but really the brand means nothing when comparing higher end equipment.. the enclosure/sub spec match does. (if you stick with JL and JL designed enclosure.. its already matched.. but expensive)

    Pay attention to the math.. If you want a small enclosure, instead of reading the hype get the specs of the woofer and pick up a copy of " loudspeaker design cookbook" sounds corny I know but has a crap tonne of info about enclosures and matching to a woofer. Actually you can find alot of that info on the web too. Then, if you're not up to building an enclosure to match your woofer.. go find one prebuilt that closely matches the needs you have and the sound you want. Its going to vary a little bit depending on what you listen to. Same with enclosure type..(sealed,ported,4th order.. etc) but this is all why that book is so important.

    Plans for my '10 .. already have the audio integrations enclosure.. I dig it, and got it second hand (in awesome condition with all hardware) so that didn't cost me full price.. I have a rockford fosgate sub I'm loading into it. Again not the highest of top end audio.. but its specs match the enclosure volume well for what I want it to do.

    Amp.. this is where you spend, and why I haven't put my setup in the car yet (still deciding on a amp). Get a good one.. thd should be NO higher than 1% .. signal to noise ratio should be over 100db, higher the better. Rated power should be at 12V.. 13.8 is ok.. but if they rate at 14.4.. you wont see full output. Most cars run right around 13.8 when other accessories are turned on.
    And above all output is king. For a sub you want at least 250W rms .. more never hurts.

    Cap.. (aka stiffening capacitor) Many people think you can skip these.. I beg to differ. While its not a necessity I highly recommend one. A good high power amp will demand more power than your factory electrical system was ever designed to provide, especially in short bursts.
    Fact actually, most oem electrical systems are just able enough to handle the factory equipment load let alone additional equipment. Even just a 1/2 Farad cap will make a huge improvement in the strength of the sharp low notes and sound quality. To make bass you need to move big air and move it quickly, you need power to do that.. and to make power you must have a solid reliable power supply on tap.
    If the amp pulls for more and more isn't there.. you're bass note falls short and so does the sound quality. Dimming headlights also sucks.. cap helps keep that to a minimum since it stores and discharges power when the amp needs it rather than robbing it from the battery/alternator.
    Last edited by mangostick; 06-19-2010 at 07:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    I ran JL products for years.. didn't know what I was missing in sound quality until I switched over to a Eclipse. At first I thought it just the brand change.. but really the brand means nothing when comparing higher end equipment.. the enclosure/sub spec match does. (if you stick with JL and JL designed enclosure.. its already matched.. but expensive)

    Pay attention to the math.. If you want a small enclosure, instead of reading the hype get the specs of the woofer and pick up a copy of " loudspeaker design cookbook" sounds corny I know but has a crap tonne of info about enclosures and matching to a woofer. Actually you can find alot of that info on the web too. Then, if you're not up to building an enclosure to match your woofer.. go find one prebuilt that closely matches the needs you have and the sound you want. Its going to vary a little bit depending on what you listen to. Same with enclosure type..(sealed,ported,4th order.. etc) but this is all why that book is so important.

    Plans for my '10 .. already have the audio integrations enclosure.. I dig it, and got it second hand (in awesome condition with all hardware) so that didn't cost me full price.. I have a rockford fosgate sub I'm loading into it. Again not the highest of top end audio.. but its specs match the enclosure volume well for what I want it to do.

    Amp.. this is where you spend, and why I haven't put my setup in the car yet (still deciding on a amp). Get a good one.. thd should be NO higher than 1% .. signal to noise ratio should be over 100db, higher the better. Rated power should be at 12V.. 13.8 is ok.. but if they rate at 14.4.. you wont see full output. Most cars run right around 13.8 when other accessories are turned on.
    And above all output is king. For a sub you want at least 250W rms .. more never hurts.

    Cap.. (aka stiffening capacitor) Many people think you can skip these.. I beg to differ. While its not a necessity I highly recommend one. A good high power amp will demand more power than your factory electrical system was ever designed to provide, especially in short bursts.
    Fact actually, most oem electrical systems are just able enough to handle the factory equipment load let alone additional equipment. Even just a 1/2 Farad cap will make a huge improvement in the strength of the sharp low notes and sound quality. To make bass you need to move big air and move it quickly, you need power to do that.. and to make power you must have a solid reliable power supply on tap.
    If the amp pulls for more and more isn't there.. you're bass note falls short and so does the sound quality. Dimming headlights also sucks.. cap helps keep that to a minimum since it stores and discharges power when the amp needs it rather than robbing it from the battery/alternator.

    This is what I was getting at. I was just too lazy to type it all out. It's also why you should not get a powered subwoofer. It will just be disappointing. And also like I said, the shallow mount isn't going to sound that great mounted under your seat because it wont be able to displace the air. And you're limited by how big of a woofer will actually fit under there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubaruWRC View Post
    Hi, I want to get a low profile subwoofer that doesn't take up any space in my trunk. I'm not sure where it goes, if its not in the trunk there where do I put it? So bascially I want one like Subaru sells, but I feel like an aftermarket one would be cheaper and probably better.
    he was specifically asking about the basslink and the Bass600 .
    Yea ,you can spend a ton of money on a system. Unless you want your ears to bleed , a basslink puts out serious bass.
    I don't think you have to spend a ton of money to get a great sounding system. All aftermarket amps that use MOSFET power amps are going to produce clean powerful sound. They all use the same basic circuitry. Going with a cheaper amp does not mean cheaper sound. Alot of people are brainwashed that you must go with certain brand name equip. and spend x amount of $$ to get good sound. If you do enough research , you can come up with a good economical solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph958 View Post
    he was specifically asking about the basslink and the Bass600 .
    Yea ,you can spend a ton of money on a system. Unless you want your ears to bleed , a basslink puts out serious bass.
    I don't think you have to spend a ton of money to get a great sounding system. All aftermarket amps that use MOSFET power amps are going to produce clean powerful sound. They all use the same basic circuitry. Going with a cheaper amp does not mean cheaper sound. Alot of people are brainwashed that you must go with certain brand name equip. and spend x amount of $$ to get good sound. If you do enough research , you can come up with a good economical solution.
    No.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drews View Post
    Well worth it IMO. I swear by JL audio. It's a quality product and you're paying for a sweet setup.
    If I read the site correctly the amp is inside of the box? Is that right? If so then its not a bad deal...
    I wanted to put 1 in my old camaro, but didn't seethe justification in spending that much for it...
    I have 2 10's with a 1600 watt amp and it all volfenhag, it sounds really good but I need to do some sound deading...
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph958 View Post
    All aftermarket amps that use MOSFET power amps are going to produce clean powerful sound.
    ermm.. not true. "All" amps are not created equal. Check the specs you'll see what does and doesn't work the best. They ALL vary. They all have different characteristics and power delivery, the circuitry is not all the same. Making a reference to MOSFET's making amps the same is exactly like saying that all cars are the same since they have rubber tires. ...
    The basslink and other small combination units with a built in amp leave very little room for a solid internal power supply. This means you dont have the number of caps internally to support the current draw at higher volumes. Again, why you go with a separate amp/sub combo and install a proper stiffening cap.

    They all use the same basic circuitry. Going with a cheaper amp does not mean cheaper sound.
    again, in order of your statement NO and YES.. You are aware that there are 4 different and distinct classes of audio amplifier no? Granted you dont have to spend thousands on a good amp.. but it DOES have to have good specs. IN my net wandering last night I actually found a few off brands that had really decent specs.. but you're still looking at $130-$200 range. This cost doesn't include the sub or enclosure or wiring.

    Alot of people are brainwashed that you must go with certain brand name equip. and spend x amount of $$ to get good sound. If you do enough research , you can come up with a good economical solution.
    I highly agree with this^ but again and again and again I emphasize that you cannot just get any cheap amp and expect it to work to high expectations. Unless you find one with slammin specs (100+db signal to noise ratio, tested at 13v and thd under .8%) and they are out there..
    Its going to disappoint over the long term if it doesn't perform. What drews and I are getting at is that it doesn't have to be killer expensive but if you're going to spend hard earned dough anyway you may as well make the most out of what you're spending. Get good stuff but good doesn't necessarily mean exorbitantly expensive.
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  9. #23
    Captain James of the SS Impreza has gone down with the ship Drews's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06scoobyrex View Post
    If I read the site correctly the amp is inside of the box? Is that right? If so then its not a bad deal...
    I wanted to put 1 in my old camaro, but didn't seethe justification in spending that much for it...
    I have 2 10's with a 1600 watt amp and it all volfenhag, it sounds really good but I need to do some sound deading...
    You do not read correctly. You still have to buy an amp to power the woofer. I think 2 10's is too much to be honest. I had 2 10's in my BMW and it sounded AMAZING. Those woofers were accompanied by all around Boston Acoustic speakers so it was an epic sound system. But I don't really go for just loudness. If you strive for clarity, loudness will follow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drews View Post
    You do not read correctly. You still have to buy an amp to power the woofer. I think 2 10's is too much to be honest. I had 2 10's in my BMW and it sounded AMAZING. Those woofers were accompanied by all around Boston Acoustic speakers so it was an epic sound system. But I don't really go for just loudness. If you strive for clarity, loudness will follow.
    Yeah I fine tuned it pretty good to get rid of some of the distortion, but still have to put some weather stripping around the trunk lining... after that I need to get a HU and speakers...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06scoobyrex View Post
    Yeah I fine tuned it pretty good to get rid of some of the distortion, but still have to put some weather stripping around the trunk lining... after that I need to get a HU and speakers...
    Get a HU first. You'd be surprised at how well that does to improve the sound of anything you have connected to it

    Edit: Before you go into sound deadening I would get all your components in order. After you get all your components settled then you can start chasing down where you need to deaden sound.
    Last edited by Drews; 06-20-2010 at 08:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    ermm.. not true. "All" amps are not created equal. Check the specs you'll see what does and doesn't work the best. They ALL vary. They all have different characteristics and power delivery, the circuitry is not all the same. Making a reference to MOSFET's making amps the same is exactly like saying that all cars are the same since they have rubber tires. ...
    The basslink and other small combination units with a built in amp leave very little room for a solid internal power supply. This means you dont have the number of caps internally to support the current draw at higher volumes. Again, why you go with a separate amp/sub combo and install a proper stiffening cap.



    again, in order of your statement NO and YES.. You are aware that there are 4 different and distinct classes of audio amplifier no? Granted you dont have to spend thousands on a good amp.. but it DOES have to have good specs. IN my net wandering last night I actually found a few off brands that had really decent specs.. but you're still looking at $130-$200 range. This cost doesn't include the sub or enclosure or wiring.



    I highly agree with this^ but again and again and again I emphasize that you cannot just get any cheap amp and expect it to work to high expectations. Unless you find one with slammin specs (100+db signal to noise ratio, tested at 13v and thd under .8%) and they are out there..
    Its going to disappoint over the long term if it doesn't perform. What drews and I are getting at is that it doesn't have to be killer expensive but if you're going to spend hard earned dough anyway you may as well make the most out of what you're spending. Get good stuff but good doesn't necessarily mean exorbitantly expensive.
    You are totally correct. Not all MOS FETs amps are created equal. The power supply is one of the first places they skimp on.

    But come on guys , the specs don't lie. You can find amps for $100 that put out 350 continuous watts RMS (20-20KHZ) into a 4 ohm load with .08 % distortion.

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    hey guys thanks for the insight, but I wanted something light. So I went with the Boss Audio BASS600 8-Inch.

    I got the wiring kit that boss sells with it.

    I get it this Tuesday and will attempt to install it this weekend. I will try to get some photos of the install and post them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubaruWRC View Post
    hey guys thanks for the insight, but I wanted something light. So I went with the Boss Audio BASS600 8-Inch.

    I got the wiring kit that boss sells with it.

    I get it this Tuesday and will attempt to install it this weekend. I will try to get some photos of the install and post them.
    *sigh*
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    Keep us posted on how it sounds.

    Personally I gave up on keeping "light" and "sounds great" in the same phrase when it came to sound systems. Speakers have magnets.. magnets are heavy.. amps have power supplies.. good ones are heavy.. (both depend on magnets and coils of copper) just a fact of physics we have to live with. If you really want to drop weight.. just pull the whole sound system out of the car, head unit and all.



    If its a street car though, weight shouldn't be an issue. You're not racing.. an extra 30-40lbs really isnt' going to make a difference. You can build a good sub setup including the weight of the amp that sounds wicked and it will fit within that amount.

    But come on guys , the specs don't lie. You can find amps for $100 that put out 350 continuous watts RMS (20-20KHZ) into a 4 ohm load with .08 % distortion.
    I didn't find any under $120 last night that met all my criteria. I imagine if I looked harder I could have found one. All were also tested at 14.0V .. Turn on your headlights and you'll never see 14v across the system. so the amp will never make rated wattage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    I ran JL products for years.. didn't know what I was missing in sound quality until I switched over to a Eclipse. At first I thought it just the brand change.. but really the brand means nothing when comparing higher end equipment.. the enclosure/sub spec match does. (if you stick with JL and JL designed enclosure.. its already matched.. but expensive)


    Cap.. (aka stiffening capacitor) Many people think you can skip these.. I beg to differ. While its not a necessity I highly recommend one. A good high power amp will demand more power than your factory electrical system was ever designed to provide, especially in short bursts.
    Fact actually, most oem electrical systems are just able enough to handle the factory equipment load let alone additional equipment. Even just a 1/2 Farad cap will make a huge improvement in the strength of the sharp low notes and sound quality. To make bass you need to move big air and move it quickly, you need power to do that.. and to make power you must have a solid reliable power supply on tap.
    If the amp pulls for more and more isn't there.. you're bass note falls short and so does the sound quality. Dimming headlights also sucks.. cap helps keep that to a minimum since it stores and discharges power when the amp needs it rather than robbing it from the battery/alternator.
    Couple points on your post mango (in my opinion)..

    +1 on JL: I think they are pretty overrated. Good quality stuff, but you could get something 3/4 the price which sounds just as good if not better. Spend the 1/4 on a nicer head unit or amp or wire.

    -1 on the cap: It might work. In the end, it is covering another issue up though. It is NOT the way to fix this. Normally, it is caused by running too thin of wire for the rated current. I forget the exact physics as to why it does this, I'm sure you can find it if you read around though a bit. Make sure you run the proper size wires and you should be okay. Otherwise, it's time for a big 3 upgrade (batt/alt/grounding).
    This is a pretty touchy subject, and I am just playing devils advocate with mango. I said -1 to even out the scale more so and let you know there is a debate on the subject.

    I think you'll enjoy your boss. It isn't going to be the top quality system out there, but it certainly will be better than what you have I bet. Should be enough to support your low end. It's a nice medium without going too far into the audio world in my opinion. Let us know how the install goes and how it sounds =)
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