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This is a discussion on STi vs new vette within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by DIE DIE thanks man! I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, of course it "could" happen due ...

  1. #76
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIE DIE
    thanks man!

    I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, of course it "could" happen due to tons of factors.. I simply called BS because he never mentioned the fact that the c6 was not driven to it's potential, or probably never even downshifted...he just made it seem like his cobb2 STi is faster than c6 vettes which we all know is false
    uhhuh...just like we all know the 350z is faster than an STi right? Whatever dude. You think I left stuff out or changed the events to suite my ego? Thats your perogative. I'm sure, since you were there, you know all about it right? Why should I mention your so-called "facts". The facts are as I stated them, since I was there and you weren't. If I were to state any of your so called "facts", it no longer would have been factual as 1) I don't know if he downshifted, nor do I care, and 2) I didn't make anything seem like anything. My car was faster than his...period....deal with it. There was no "seems like" about it.

    If you choose the path of self-denial, that is your perogative. Much like the majority of those who believe a race between an STi and a 350z is a "drivers race" (whatever that is).

    After all:
    Quote Originally Posted by DIE DIE
    I haven't lost to an STi yet in my Z.................oh wait I haven't raced one yet
    Regardless of any defense on your behalf, I call it as I see it...a simple response like BS is deserving of boards like SRTForums or my350z forums..not here. You posted it, I responded. And as usual, all there is in response to my "facts" are the normal fan-boy issues that are always brought up. Woulda, coulda, and shoulda. The three favorite words of the self-denying, non-accepting, BS worshipping, fact-denying, live-in-a-make-believe-world crowd.

    Read my lips: Did I ever once state that my STi is faster than all 06 vettes? Nope. Did I ever state that I even thought this? Nope. Yeah..there are some theoretical numbers tossed out, but so what...that all bench racing and I repeatedly stated the FWIW..they are just numbers. Whatever...I hate arguing with the un-informed and un-able to accept folks. Sometimes I wonder why....oh well. Here it is anyway..fwiw.

    edit...sorry for the rant...sometimes I just get irked. I apologize.
    Last edited by YBNormal07; 03-15-2005 at 08:04 PM.
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
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    (Scott) Moderator-STi, Drag Racing, Car Purchasing, and Tutorial Forums

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  3. #77
    Registered User scooby24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan00Hawk
    But I bet you'd chime in when someone pronounces it "Nuke-uler"... It's been 10+ years since my Physics classes at Illinois, so I'm sure I've forgotten a bunch of principles. I'm just going by what seems to make sense to me. I'm rather hoping someone with an engineering background (or better yet a drivetrain engineer) could chime in with an educated response.

    I found a good example that might prove my theory that the percentage stays the same and that driveline loss is not a constant fixed amount. It will increase as HP increases...

    A stock WRX and a Stock 2.5RS have essentially the same driveline components, right? Same wheels, trans, etc... I believe the clutch might be a bit different, but not sure if it would contribute much if anything.

    Subaru rates the 2.5RS at 165 HP and 166 TQ at the flywheel.
    A dyno of a stock 2.5RS shows that it puts out 122.5 WHP and 133.3 WTQ
    Dyno results here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/impreza/im...rformance.html
    165 hp - 122.5 whp gives a loss of 42.5 HP. 42.5 divided by 165 = 25.8% loss for HP
    166 tq - 133.3 wtq gives a loss of 32.7 TQ. 32.7 divided by 166 = 19.7% loss for TQ

    Subaru rates the WRX at 227 HP and 217 TQ at the flywheel.
    A Dyno of a stock WRX shows that it puts out 169.9 WHP and 174.3 WTQ
    Dyno results here (note, done on the same shop and dyno as the above example, so it should be relatively consistent) :http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/images%5Cae-stage2-dyno.jpg
    227 hp - 169.9 whp gives a loss of 57.1 hp. 57.1 hp divided by 227 = 25.2% loss for HP
    217 tq - 174.3 wtq gives a loss of 42.7 tq. 42.7 divided by 217 = 19.7% loss for TQ.

    Note how both the HP and TQ losses are higher on the more powerful WRX despite the nearly identical drivetrain. Yet, when the math is done to calculate the percentage lost through the drivetrain, they are nearly identical. Way to close to be a coincidence...

    Thus I'd have to conclude that drivetrain loss will stay at or around 25% for a WRX, regardless of power levels. Of course, this may change as people upgrade or change components to handle the higher power levels.

    Class dismissed!
    BRILLIANT!!
    05 Crystal Gray STi
    304 hp 353 lbs on 92 octane ------> Mustang Dyno
    12.6 @ 109.2 > new numbers coming soon.

  4. #78
    Registered User DIE DIE's Avatar
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    TBnormal...don't get so worked up bud.. If you beat it good job Just know that a well driven one would hand you your ass from a roll <--which is why I don't see the point of posting this sort of kill, but oh well....I beat an 04 cobra twice in a row in my dads stock e500 benze..(14 flat @ 100 car) <-- the dude missed a gear from a roll (just went 20-70ish), and then spun forever off the line, so he lost twice....I would never post something like that unless I made it very clear that the cobra ****ed up

  5. #79
    Banned sonicrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOUTHPAW
    oh yeah brain fart. i think with age i lose more brain power

  6. #80
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    wow, this thing got out of hand
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  7. #81
    Registered User fastwrx135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTR rex
    wow, this thing got out of hand
    +1...

    I knew it would and it did. Thats why i've just been a spectator. This is getting pretty interesting.
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  8. #82
    Registered User stight's Avatar
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    wholly crap

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  10. #84
    Banned TSi AWD's Avatar
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    Well I still stand by my Tranny loss, no way that STI has over 400Crank HP. It may have 20$ loss at 1st but not ass youadd power. Again the only true way to know this is to run a 1/4 mile, If he has 400crank HP then he should trap @ 113+++ He will not IMHO.

    I'll take that bet!!!


    I'm at 1k ASL and hit 107.4 mph trap...and I have less power because i'm at a higher elevation.

    Being sea level. I'm almost certain he'll be 1.5 mph faster than me.

    Not the same with a turbo car. You have a wastegate set to say 15PSI, you'll pump in 15PSI although you may get heat soak faster. You may also have less whp then us down here but not as bad as a NA or even a supercharger car. a Supercharged car set to 15PSI will pump in 20% less at i mile up, NA suck in 20% less, turbo will pump in 15PSI no matter what unless the turo is maxed out and you drop the air pressure, then you're screwed.

  11. #85
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSi AWD
    Not the same with a turbo car. You have a wastegate set to say 15PSI, you'll pump in 15PSI although you may get heat soak faster. You may also have less whp then us down here but not as bad as a NA or even a supercharger car. a Supercharged car set to 15PSI will pump in 20% less at i mile up, NA suck in 20% less, turbo will pump in 15PSI no matter what unless the turo is maxed out and you drop the air pressure, then you're screwed.
    Seriously...do you know what PSIA stands for? As in "absolute"? As in the pressure used within your manifold to manage boost? Might want to read up on the effects of altitude here. Not trying to ping on ya or anything, but two car's with the same setup will NOT hit the same boost pressure at different altitudes. It all has to do with your AFR's. Less absolute pressure to start with means you will have to target a higher boost to get the same performance level, which means different maps all together.

    Lets say you are at 14.7 psia at sea level. Now, in the mountains you are at 12 psia. Is your turbo going to now always be in boost because you are -1.3 psia less then what it thinks you should be?
    Not to mention the timing and AFRs that have have to be changed to compensate for the slower spool rate. The fuel and timing curves at altitude are so much different for a boosted car then they are at sea level it isn't even funny. Take my word for it. Lets say for a target boost setting of 15 psi at sea level, you will need at least 17-18 psi in the mountains to get the same level of performance. And the inverce is true when going mtn to sea level. Don't belive me? Set you vehicle up for max performance at a high altititude, then see how fast you grenade it when it dets to death at seal level with the same settings.
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
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  12. #86
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Sorry about sounding so arrogant in the above post. I got off on a tangent.
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
    08 Audi S5 Black Diamond edition
    SOLD: 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited 5MT, 13.3ish@105 (stage 2) crappy stock clutch
    SOLD: 04 MPS/SW WRX Sti. 12.971 @ 103.97 (stock)
    278 AWHP/283 AWT, Catback exhaust
    306 AWHP/341 AWT, Stage 2
    (Scott) Moderator-STi, Drag Racing, Car Purchasing, and Tutorial Forums

  13. #87
    Registered User scooby24's Avatar
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    YB is correct. Boost will NOT stay the same per elevation. Ask anyone from Colorado about that.
    05 Crystal Gray STi
    304 hp 353 lbs on 92 octane ------> Mustang Dyno
    12.6 @ 109.2 > new numbers coming soon.

  14. #88
    Registered User Anzioblack44's Avatar
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    Reasons for outcome:
    Elevation
    Driver error (not downshifting at all)
    Vehicle break-in period
    Vette driver was using the Cruise control button to accelerate.
    2011 SWP 5 door WRX LIMITED

  15. #89
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzioblack44
    Reasons for outcome:
    Elevation
    Driver error (not downshifting at all)
    Vehicle break-in period
    Vette driver was using the Cruise control button to accelerate.

    So glad you could be with us on that day to log these reasons. Wait-a-minute---so that was you in the vette passenger seat? Good observations. I just LUV scenario and magazine racers. Don't you?
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
    08 Audi S5 Black Diamond edition
    SOLD: 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited 5MT, 13.3ish@105 (stage 2) crappy stock clutch
    SOLD: 04 MPS/SW WRX Sti. 12.971 @ 103.97 (stock)
    278 AWHP/283 AWT, Catback exhaust
    306 AWHP/341 AWT, Stage 2
    (Scott) Moderator-STi, Drag Racing, Car Purchasing, and Tutorial Forums

  16. #90
    Registered User Anzioblack44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07
    So glad you could be with us on that day to log these reasons. Wait-a-minute---so that was you in the vette passenger seat? Good observations. I just LUV scenario and magazine racers. Don't you?

    Just a couple of explanations. Case you hadnt thought of them.
    2011 SWP 5 door WRX LIMITED

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