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This is a discussion on STi vs new vette within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by Dan00Hawk But I bet you'd chime in when someone pronounces it "Nuke-uler"... It's been 10+ years since ...

  1. #61
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan00Hawk
    But I bet you'd chime in when someone pronounces it "Nuke-uler"... It's been 10+ years since my Physics classes at Illinois, so I'm sure I've forgotten a bunch of principles. I'm just going by what seems to make sense to me. I'm rather hoping someone with an engineering background (or better yet a drivetrain engineer) could chime in with an educated response.

    I found a good example that might prove my theory that the percentage stays the same and that driveline loss is not a constant fixed amount. It will increase as HP increases...

    A stock WRX and a Stock 2.5RS have essentially the same driveline components, right? Same wheels, trans, etc... I believe the clutch might be a bit different, but not sure if it would contribute much if anything.

    Subaru rates the 2.5RS at 165 HP and 166 TQ at the flywheel.
    A dyno of a stock 2.5RS shows that it puts out 122.5 WHP and 133.3 WTQ
    Dyno results here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/impreza/im...rformance.html
    165 hp - 122.5 whp gives a loss of 42.5 HP. 42.5 divided by 165 = 25.8% loss for HP
    166 tq - 133.3 wtq gives a loss of 32.7 TQ. 32.7 divided by 166 = 19.7% loss for TQ

    Subaru rates the WRX at 227 HP and 217 TQ at the flywheel.
    A Dyno of a stock WRX shows that it puts out 169.9 WHP and 174.3 WTQ
    Dyno results here (note, done on the same shop and dyno as the above example, so it should be relatively consistent) :http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/images%5Cae-stage2-dyno.jpg
    227 hp - 169.9 whp gives a loss of 57.1 hp. 57.1 hp divided by 227 = 25.2% loss for HP
    217 tq - 174.3 wtq gives a loss of 42.7 tq. 42.7 divided by 217 = 19.7% loss for TQ.

    Note how both the HP and TQ losses are higher on the more powerful WRX despite the nearly identical drivetrain. Yet, when the math is done to calculate the percentage lost through the drivetrain, they are nearly identical. Way to close to be a coincidence...

    Thus I'd have to conclude that drivetrain loss will stay at or around 25% for a WRX, regardless of power levels. Of course, this may change as people upgrade or change components to handle the higher power levels.

    Class dismissed!
    "A" for presentation
    "A" for using real world demonstrated facts
    "A" for conclusion.

    Exactly why I used a 20% drivetrain loss in my estimates previously. This figure assumes a 60 HP loss from crank to wheels on an STi, which given a final figure of 240HP to the wheels, is about the average that you see for an STi on a dyno.

    If you do the math between the two vehicles (again, theoretically) and assume a 7-8% loss for the vette, it puts him about 4 HP more than me at the wheels, at about 25-30 less torque. I believe the weight difference is around 100 lbs with the vette having the advantage. Again, toss in the gear ratios, and this race result is totally possible. In fact..it's not only possible, it's what happened. So..now we have not only the real results, but the theory to back it up.

    (why do I feel like I'm going to regret jumping in on the numbers game again )

    Cheers
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  3. #62
    Registered User Dan00Hawk's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grade, professor! LOL

    Here's some more numbers to chew on:

    http://forum.fbody.us/showthread.php...highlight=dyno
    Stock C6 dynoing at 354 rwhp and 348 rwtq at one of our local performance shops... Rated by Chevy at 400 at the flywheel. 11.5% drivetrain loss...


    2007 VW GTI 6 spd. No times yet
    2000 Firehawk convertible 6spd- 12.52 @ 114.7 mph. 2.09 60'

    Sold: 2004 Mini Cooper S. 14.95 @ 93.8 mph.
    Sold: 2004 GTO 6 spd. 13.4 @ 104.5 mph
    Sold: 2002 WRX 5spd. 13.39 @100.7 mph. 1.81 60'
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  4. #63
    Registered User DIE DIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgui
    ^^
    Just found out your 350z ain't the shiznit, or is it just a high flow day? Check out his other posts before calling the parent poster out. I'd believe this post, bad drivers are in abundance.
    WTF does me being slower than STi's have to do with him thinking he can walk a c6 from a roll?????
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  5. #64
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIE DIE
    WTF does me being slower than STi's have to do with him thinking he can walk a c6 from a roll?????
    Read the posts. Ain't no "thinking" here. It's what happened. Just because you doubt it, as demonstrated by your jumping in with awesome, witty, and intelligent responses like "BS" doesn't make it not true...unlike the totally true stuff I see posted on my350z forums.
    tEh PriUs=teH faSTah!@@!
    08 Audi S5 Black Diamond edition
    SOLD: 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited 5MT, 13.3ish@105 (stage 2) crappy stock clutch
    SOLD: 04 MPS/SW WRX Sti. 12.971 @ 103.97 (stock)
    278 AWHP/283 AWT, Catback exhaust
    306 AWHP/341 AWT, Stage 2
    (Scott) Moderator-STi, Drag Racing, Car Purchasing, and Tutorial Forums
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  6. #65
    Banned sonicrx's Avatar
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    the numbers game will get ya everytime. real world racing anything can happen. i have beatin c6's from a dig and from a roll.i have beatin many a cars that most people would say yeah right. i have spent alot of time and money on my car ,and yes i have lost to cars that i could destroy. the numbers were in my favor ,but my skills that day killed my cars ability. so i say nice run enjoy it next time might not be in your favor.
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  7. #66
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    I don't think YBNormal07 is BS'ing. If he was, like most other BS kill stories, it would have trailed off by now. He beat the C6 and that's that. How long can you argue this point? If it was a best of 3 race, or a formal point-to-point run, the results might have been different but who cares?! I have only raced a few cars in my C6, two of which have been STi's... When the warmer weather comes, I will be gauging how fast my car is against the others in my area. The moment I lose to a car I think I can beat, it will be upgrade time.


    It also seems there are quite a few people here who have also raced C6's as well. I was under the impression that they were not all that common yet...(there are only 3 that I've seen so far in person)? Either way, good kills, and come summer, I will be posting a few of my own.


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  8. #67
    Banned sonicrx's Avatar
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    nieghbors brother inlaw has one,and i have a gm dealership that sells alot of vettes. they are awsome looking cars i think they are the best looking vettes since 1956 vettes
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  9. #68
    Registered User AwdTurboWrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07
    Read the posts. Ain't no "thinking" here. It's what happened. Just because you doubt it, as demonstrated by your jumping in with awesome, witty, and intelligent responses like "BS" doesn't make it not true...unlike the totally true stuff I see posted on my350z forums.

    i'll defend die die because his proved not to be a troll or a bad guy. I think u have him confusd for that 350zboi guy .2 differet people.
    The Ghosts of Zooph and Sarcasmo Will haunt CLUBWRX forever!!!
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  10. #69
    Registered User DIE DIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwdTurboWrx
    i'll defend die die because his proved not to be a troll or a bad guy. I think u have him confusd for that 350zboi guy .2 differet people.
    thanks man!

    I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, of course it "could" happen due to tons of factors.. I simply called BS because he never mentioned the fact that the c6 was not driven to it's potential, or probably never even downshifted...he just made it seem like his cobb2 STi is faster than c6 vettes which we all know is false
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  11. #70
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    sonicrx, your rex is the sickness...

    ... if I lived in IL, I would be modding right now.


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  12. #71
    Registered User stight's Avatar
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    Going in to work this morning, 101 freeway between Aguora and Calabasis at 0600 hours, low and behold a new yellow vette. Tooling along at 75 he hammered while I was pulling next to him in 4th. With IHI turbo upgrade Cobb 2, Esplier back from my single cat, injen 1200RS intake, and 94 fuel, stayed with him to the turns. Left him in the turns. Probably did not have the courage going into curves at 130 mph even though the vette can do it.

    Bottom line, I could not pull him. The vette had something going on with the exhaust, was not stock. Don't know anything else about the car since I let him go by once we were out of the turns.

    Again, so many variables in the street world. Lots of fun though!
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  13. #72
    Registered User stight's Avatar
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    oh, and VInce, your ride IS sick.
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  14. #73
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    Mods for a C6...

    Exhaust = + no HP
    Intake = + no HP
    EMS = + HP
    Headers = + HP
    Turbo/ Supercharger = + HP
    N02 = + HP


    On the twisties, it always comes down to who ever has the most b@lls...


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    *2005 Corvette C6 - A few APS bolt-ons
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  15. #74
    Banned sonicrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stight
    oh, and VInce, your ride IS sick.
    thanks, and so is the yellow c6 love that color. and how did you know my name?
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  16. #75
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicrx
    thanks, and so is the yellow c6 love that color. and how did you know my name?


    http://www.cardomain.com/id/sonicrx


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    PICS & MODS

    *2005 Corvette C6 - A few APS bolt-ons
    PICS & MODS <- Built by XX Tuning
    *2003 Subaru WRX - 332 AWHP - SOLD
    PICS & MODS <- Built by XX Tuning
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