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This is a discussion on M3 VS Sti within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; drivin: Well spent about 1 hr with my brothers and girlfriend trying to pick up the new Initial D Vol ...

  1. #1
    Registered User V8killer2pt5's Avatar
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    M3 VS Sti

    drivin: Well spent about 1 hr with my brothers and girlfriend trying to pick up the new Initial D Vol 9, no luck in Queens 3 locales sold out. Out of desparation decided to head out to Roosevelt Field in Li. So we get out there and "Voila" pick it up at Sam Goody, head to the upper deck where I parked. There were about 5 350 Z's parked near me, I left a note saying would be cool to hook up. So now we pull out and look forward to Tak drifting to victory! I weigh about 240 lbs, my 2nd bro tips in at 200 with the youngest hovering at 145. My girl brings up the rear at 120 if that....shhh you never heard that from me. So back to my story we leave at approx 4:30- 5:00 pm, merging on the the Northern State with moderate traffic. Me being the observant bloke that I am see what looks like dual exhausts on a Bmw about 5-8 cars in front of us.
    I ask my brothers who are sitting in the rear ...M5? They both reply "not sure "since the damm model numbers tend to blend in with the M symbol from a distance. So I ease up and pull with in 2 car lengths to the left of him in the fast lane, and bingo M3 "The e46" ahead captain! My girl knowingly gives me the "You Better Not" look. So we are pacing him at about 70-75 with the flow of traffic, then I speed up a little to pull past him, since he had a car about 5 car lengths ahead. I concentrating on safety first decide to keep going and not initate anything but all the while watching my rear view. So we pass with me looking ahead innocently in 6th gear at about 85, no cars ahead of me for about 1/8 of a mile. All of a sudden I get blinded by some Hid's from my side view, my little bro (18) says he just bit and you got incoming! I was caught off guard with him accelerating about 4 car lengths behind me. I say screw it and instead of going to 4th at 85 mph to my 100mph gear limit, drop to 5th and punch it. :angry: I instantly start pulling like a locomotive and pull about 5-8 lengths on him to about 115-120. I glance in the rear view and he stayed at about the same distance with no apparent gain. So I quickly shift out and let it coast in neutral while braking to a more sensible speed. Takes a few secs for him to pull even and I wind front passenger window down, my girl's head is in the way so I can't really see what he did. My girl says you just got a thumbs up, so I just throw a return gesture blindly. He pulls ahead where I get behind him then pull next to him again and honk! He returns and waves while exiting off. Turns out it was him and his girl, according to my brothers. Sorry for the long post but it was a good run with a margin of safety as best as could be expected with no cars directly in our path for a good 1/8th mile. :drivin:
    2004 Wrb Sti- Mildly modded!........pause......pause....."NOT!"

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  3. #2
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    hmm

    What are your mods? You had a combined weight of about 600 lbs there.

  4. #3
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8killer2pt5
    drivin: Well spent about 1 hr with my brothers and girlfriend trying to pick up the new Initial D Vol 9, no luck in Queens 3 locales sold out. Out of desparation decided to head out to Roosevelt Field in Li. So we get out there and "Voila" pick it up at Sam Goody, head to the upper deck where I parked. There were about 5 350 Z's parked near me, I left a note saying would be cool to hook up. So now we pull out and look forward to Tak drifting to victory! I weigh about 240 lbs, my 2nd bro tips in at 200 with the youngest hovering at 145. My girl brings up the rear at 120 if that....shhh you never heard that from me. So back to my story we leave at approx 4:30- 5:00 pm, merging on the the Northern State with moderate traffic. Me being the observant bloke that I am see what looks like dual exhausts on a Bmw about 5-8 cars in front of us.
    I ask my brothers who are sitting in the rear ...M5? They both reply "not sure "since the damm model numbers tend to blend in with the M symbol from a distance. So I ease up and pull with in 2 car lengths to the left of him in the fast lane, and bingo M3 "The e46" ahead captain! My girl knowingly gives me the "You Better Not" look. So we are pacing him at about 70-75 with the flow of traffic, then I speed up a little to pull past him, since he had a car about 5 car lengths ahead. I concentrating on safety first decide to keep going and not initate anything but all the while watching my rear view. So we pass with me looking ahead innocently in 6th gear at about 85, no cars ahead of me for about 1/8 of a mile. All of a sudden I get blinded by some Hid's from my side view, my little bro (18) says he just bit and you got incoming! I was caught off guard with him accelerating about 4 car lengths behind me. I say screw it and instead of going to 4th at 85 mph to my 100mph gear limit, drop to 5th and punch it. :angry: I instantly start pulling like a locomotive and pull about 5-8 lengths on him to about 115-120. I glance in the rear view and he stayed at about the same distance with no apparent gain. So I quickly shift out and let it coast in neutral while braking to a more sensible speed. Takes a few secs for him to pull even and I wind front passenger window down, my girl's head is in the way so I can't really see what he did. My girl says you just got a thumbs up, so I just throw a return gesture blindly. He pulls ahead where I get behind him then pull next to him again and honk! He returns and waves while exiting off. Turns out it was him and his girl, according to my brothers. Sorry for the long post but it was a good run with a margin of safety as best as could be expected with no cars directly in our path for a good 1/8th mile. :drivin:

    I like the amount of enthusiasm you put into your kill post here... but I must ask: you have to have mods right? E46 M3 tends to trap about 2mph higher than an STi and considering you had almost 600lbs of extra weight and went from 5th gear I would expect you have just about every bolt on imaginable or be on an upgraded turbo. Putting 5 car lengths on an M3 in 5th gear with 600lbs extra is something I would only expect from an 18G or better.
    Just call me Clark Kent
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  5. #4
    Registered User V8killer2pt5's Avatar
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    Well...

    Well believe it or not, all I have is a Bosal dp with ecutek tuning and a Itg drop in filter. Tuned to 280 awhp and 293 awtrq. But that was a little understated, here is what my tuner had to say about my tune>

    "On Dean's car the boost is hitting 17.2 max and then quickly taper to 14 at red line

    The a/f is 11.4- 11.5 at spool up tapering down to 11.0 at 6,000

    You can see that the a/f numbers we are running are not much leaner than stock

    Most of the gains come from slightly higher boost, optimization of the cam angle settings to give a crisper feel and slight timing changes

    It should be noted that Dean's car was running a ign timing correction of about 8 after the road tune part and we needed to make a slight fueling correction on the dyno. When we did this - we were unable to get the ignition to quickly advance on the dyno jet dyno by doing the 2,500 - 3,500 rpms 3 - 5 psi boost with the breaks for 5 seconds trick. (that trick by the way is used to get the ecu to quickly learn the ign advance and get into some fast positive numbers rather than driving about for a half hour). Anyway - my point is that Dean's sheet there was with 3 - 4 timing advance - about half the advance he was running later when we trook it out on the street and did a final road test and data log. Therefore, if he came back to the dyno after drvining it about for a few days we would expect to see even more gains on the dyno."

    Yes I was surprised to pull as hard as I did on him, but those are the facts! I am probably over or at least at 300awhp and for certain in excess of 300 awtrq. He might of been lacking in the shifting department or lost his powerband when he did shift? I was going at least 85 if not a little more when we started so by going into 5th vs 4th I eliminated shifting at 100mph. I tend to downshift most of the time from 6th to 4th when my speed is between 50-70 and that has always been more than enough to put away contenders so far. I have a chart showing the m3 vs Sti gear acceleration at speed, it might be some help?
    2004 Wrb Sti- Mildly modded!........pause......pause....."NOT!"

  6. #5
    Registered User V8killer2pt5's Avatar
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    Lol

    Oh and your 600lb calculation is a bit off, more like 705 lbs!

    240 + 200 + 145 +120 = 705 lbs I know the M3 driver was cool about it since he smiled when he waved me off at his exit. here's the M3 vs Sti both stock chart>

    M3 vs STi
    3rd gear:
    50-70 2.8 sec 2.2 sec
    60-80 2.9 sec 2.6 sec

    4th gear:
    50-70 4.2 sec 2.5 sec
    60-80 4.1 sec 2.7 sec
    70-90 4.0 sec 3.1 sec
    80-100 4.2 sec 3.6 sec

    5th gear:
    50-70 5.6 sec 3.3 sec
    60-80 5.3 sec 3.3 sec
    70-90 5.3 sec 3.4 sec
    80-100 5.5 sec 3.7 sec
    90-110 5.7 sec 4.4 sec
    110-130 7.3 sec 6.6 sec

    6th gear:
    50-70 8.1 sec 5.1 sec
    60-80 7.8 sec 4.6 sec
    70-90 7.6 sec 4.9 sec
    80-100 7.8 sec 4.8 sec
    90-110 8.4 sec 5.2 sec
    100-120 9.1 sec 5.8 sec
    2004 Wrb Sti- Mildly modded!........pause......pause....."NOT!"

  7. #6
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8killer2pt5
    Oh and your 600lb calculation is a bit off, more like 705 lbs!

    240 + 200 + 145 +120 = 705 lbs I know the M3 driver was cool about it since he smiled when he waved me off at his exit. here's the M3 vs Sti both stock chart>

    M3 vs STi
    3rd gear:
    50-70 2.8 sec 2.2 sec
    60-80 2.9 sec 2.6 sec

    4th gear:
    50-70 4.2 sec 2.5 sec
    60-80 4.1 sec 2.7 sec
    70-90 4.0 sec 3.1 sec
    80-100 4.2 sec 3.6 sec

    5th gear:
    50-70 5.6 sec 3.3 sec
    60-80 5.3 sec 3.3 sec
    70-90 5.3 sec 3.4 sec
    80-100 5.5 sec 3.7 sec
    90-110 5.7 sec 4.4 sec
    110-130 7.3 sec 6.6 sec

    6th gear:
    50-70 8.1 sec 5.1 sec
    60-80 7.8 sec 4.6 sec
    70-90 7.6 sec 4.9 sec
    80-100 7.8 sec 4.8 sec
    90-110 8.4 sec 5.2 sec
    100-120 9.1 sec 5.8 sec
    I was not incorrect on the weight. I was stating "extra" weight, meaning NOT including you. I am not calling you a liar or anything, but just saying that what happened is kind of unusual. You had almost 600 extra lbs, and only making 20whp more and pulled 5 car lengths on him.. It just kinda sounds a little fishy. I am not calling you a liar, but regularly this type of thing shouldn't go down like it did.

    as far as those #'s you posted, those are crap. People aways post those in the M3 vs STi threads, but it really proves nothing. All those numbers are in 20mph increments. When only traveling 20mph the torque of the STi causes it to be able to get the initial pull. Hence why it does so well in that comparison of numbers. But if you extrended it and an extra 20mph the M3 would pull even, and pass it. the STi's extra torque allows it to get the jump like that, but instead of 60-80 you did 60-100 the M3 would much better than you think. Infact most STi's trap around 103 stock and most M3's trap at 105/106.

    You mods warrant you a win, but with all that extra weight and pulling 5 WHOLE CAR LENGTHS it makes me raise an eyebrow. doesnt mean you are lying, but just means that what happened is not really normal.
    Just call me Clark Kent
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    Offical Body Guard for the Bugeye Mafia.

  8. #7
    Registered User V8killer2pt5's Avatar
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    Ok

    Well to say I had 600 extra is not really relevant since my weight plays into it also. Not alot of guys are my size, now I just posted the chart to give an idea of why he might have loss. The 1/4 mile times and ets play in from a standing start but can easily be thrown off by at speed situations. Also keep in mind that the gears in the Sti are considerably shorter than a M3 so that lends itself to faster acceleration but lower top end speed. Either way I do get where you are coming from.
    2004 Wrb Sti- Mildly modded!........pause......pause....."NOT!"

  9. #8
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8killer2pt5
    Well to say I had 600 extra is not really relevant since my weight plays into it also. Not alot of guys are my size, now I just posted the chart to give an idea of why he might have loss. The 1/4 mile times and ets play in from a standing start but can easily be thrown off by at speed situations. Also keep in mind that the gears in the Sti are considerably shorter than a M3 so that lends itself to faster acceleration but lower top end speed. Either way I do get where you are coming from.
    in all fairness, the trap speed of an e.t. is probably the best indicator of topend speed.
    Just call me Clark Kent
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    Boba Fett BrianH's Avatar
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  11. #10
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    ofcourse ANYTHING can happen.... but that M3 driver there must have really sucked. He lost by just over a car to a stageII wrx. StageII will barely reach 100mph traps and the M3's have no problem getting 105mph traps.
    Just call me Clark Kent
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    Offical Body Guard for the Bugeye Mafia.

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