According to C&D: STi > EVO MR (Well, Our AWD system is)
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This is a discussion on According to C&D: STi > EVO MR (Well, Our AWD system is) within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1 Sorry if this is a repost. I did search, but didn't find anything. Anyway, after all the times the ...

  1. #1
    Registered User 4 Banger's Avatar
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    According to C&D: STi > EVO MR (Well, Our AWD system is)

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

    Sorry if this is a repost. I did search, but didn't find anything.

    Anyway, after all the times the STi and EVO have been compared in C&D, the STi has finally "won" one.

    This test results kinda suprised me seeing how the EVO is almost always hyped as being the better handling car, when put up against the STi. With a few suspension tweaks to fix understeer, the STi could be the "better handling car", but this is something most of us already know. It was an interesting read, so I just thought I'd pass this along.
    04' STi (Silver/Silver)
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    Registered User Blizwinter's Avatar
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    Very cool. sti owns!

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    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    I've been waiting to see this article. I've been looking for a paper copy of C&D for the last week and couldn't find one anywhere.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    Edit: Just read it. Finally an article that shows the STi in favourable light. I still love the comment, "We did two four-lap sessions in each car, and the STi was always quicker. The margin, however, was a scant 0.15 second", and yet on the other track the Evo MR only beat the STi by 0.27 seconds. With margins that small, it boils down to the driver and small variations over the laps.

    It really seems Subaru made some serious improvements in the 2005 STi to be able to take on the might Evo MR.
    Last edited by Digitalfiend; 01-14-2005 at 07:55 AM.
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    Registered User Tgui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    I've been waiting to see this article. I've been looking for a paper copy of C&D for the last week and couldn't find one anywhere.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    Edit: Just read it. Finally an article that shows the STi in favourable light. I still love the comment, "We did two four-lap sessions in each car, and the STi was always quicker. The margin, however, was a scant 0.15 second", and yet on the other track the Evo MR only beat the STi by 0.27 seconds. With margins that small, it boils down to the driver and small variations over the laps.

    It really seems Subaru made some serious improvements in the 2005 STi to be able to take on the might Evo MR.

    I don't think serious is the proper word. No MAJOR changes other than the front diff. Diff change has been described as giving a better feel, and a little better exiting speed in turns. There's still debate stemming from the school of thought that the 04 STi front diff is quite a bit stronger, and thus the 05 is a deviation from the rally heritage. I really don't count lock to lock #'s. Suspension linkage changes and additions, simple and effective.

    Being an 04 STi owner and experiencing the somewhat twitchy handling in the turn with some unwanted understeer, I am thankful Subaru listened to its customers and made some nice choices to help balance out the car.

    EDIT: And I'm happy to see that EVO owners can't gloat as much now thanks to the 05's. Now if we could only get an iron block with real forged internals and a better turbo.

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    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgui
    I don't think serious is the proper word. No MAJOR changes other than the front diff.
    So the revised power steering rack, power steering oil cooler, yaw-rate sensor, beefier/stronger front wheel hubs, new front helical LSD, bigger front sway bar (1mm), wider rims, aluminum lateral links, aren't serious changes? Maybe it's just me, but coming from an Acura I was shocked at the differences between the 04 and the 05.
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    Have anyone seen the Best Motoring issue that compare the JDM STi and EVO? The STi cam out on top. And they even went into how the Boxer layout is better for handling. The STi has won in its homeland.

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    Registered User lanevoell's Avatar
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    sounds interesting, but when are you really going to race an MR? aren't they pretty rare? o_O
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    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Said it before and I'll say it again. Just some simple tire pressure adjustmants and the STi will beat an Evo in the twisties. This article only reinforces that, as they even stated that the suspension mods needed may be as simple as tire pressure adjustment. Why SOA professes the tire pressures factory setting that they do, I'll never know.
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    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07
    Said it before and I'll say it again. Just some simple tire pressure adjustmants and the STi will beat an Evo in the twisties. This article only reinforces that, as they even stated that the suspension mods needed may be as simple as tire pressure adjustment. Why SOA professes the tire pressures factory setting that they do, I'll never know.
    So what do you run? I try and run 37-38psi front and 33-35psi rear.
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    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    So what do you run? I try and run 37-38psi front and 33-35psi rear.
    For the track, depending on the surface and conditions, the main thing I try to accomplish is from a 1.5 to 3 psi difference front to rear, with the fronts being at the higher pressure. Normal track settings are about 48 front, 45-46 rear. For the street, I run 38 front, 35 rear in winter, and 40 front, 38 rear in summer, unless I switch to snows, then it's whatever pressure they recommend.
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    Registered User Tgui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    So the revised power steering rack, power steering oil cooler, yaw-rate sensor, beefier/stronger front wheel hubs, new front helical LSD, bigger front sway bar (1mm), wider rims, aluminum lateral links, aren't serious changes? Maybe it's just me, but coming from an Acura I was shocked at the differences between the 04 and the 05.
    Steering rack, I'll get some whiteline bushings, I don't care about lock to lock changes.

    Power steering oil cooler, never known anyone thats built up enough heat to warrant this, yes, even people that track race. Its a nice to have for sure, and I might add something like this in the future.

    Aluminum lateral links... wheeee! Someday I might find some nice aftermarkets.

    Strong front wheel hubs. Never broken one before. Though I just broke my 2nd rear wheel bearing...

    Helical diff. Helical is a fun word and might give a few more percentage in feel and control in the twisties. I'm still not sure how I feel about this change. I keep hearing from people that the 05 diff just isn't nearly as strong as the 04. Then again I've never heard of an 05 having issues... so meh!

    Wheels, rear body molding, etc etc etc...

    I've never had an 05 own me in the twisties. Actually, same with EVO's and S2000's etc.

    This is all just icing on the cake. Very good and well thought out icing on the 05's. I might have to decorate my cake in a similar fashion when my current one is just too boring. They're just not major changes in my eyes.

    When I hear people saying the 05 is just sooo much more than the 04, I cringe, not because I'm jealous, but because this is all based off of car magazine racing pros that can actually use these changes to squeeze out a few MPH in the slalon etc. Us normal folk probably won't be able to use out cars to their fullest potential as is.

    And don't get me started on those that trade 04's in for 05's. erggg....

    -Eric-

    EDIT: I dig the Teg's yo.
    Last edited by Tgui; 01-16-2005 at 02:48 PM.

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    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    Well the 05 is definitely better than the 04, but not astronomically, nor so much better that a it wouldn't come down to the drivers or a few cheap mods here and there.

    Yeah I don't think I would trade in my 05 for an 06 if they came out with some revisions / cool additions. That's not to say I wouldn't be a little envious or jealous though. As I said above, I'm used to Acura/Honda where things don't change from year to year.
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    Registered User Tgui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend
    Well the 05 is definitely better than the 04, but not astronomically, nor so much better that a it wouldn't come down to the drivers or a few cheap mods here and there.

    Yeah I don't think I would trade in my 05 for an 06 if they came out with some revisions / cool additions. That's not to say I wouldn't be a little envious or jealous though. As I said above, I'm used to Acura/Honda where things don't change from year to year.
    Yeah, its a little better technically The cool thing about our cars is that they take to modding well in all categories. Soon I'll have an even bigger wing to make all 04 and 05's jealous.

    -Eric-

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    Banned TSi AWD's Avatar
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    WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! DA EVO CAN NEVER DA LOSE YO!!1111!1!!!


    Kidding aside...

    Said it before and I'll say it again. Just some simple tire pressure adjustmants and the STi will beat an Evo in the twisties. This article only reinforces that, as they even stated that the suspension mods needed may be as simple as tire pressure adjustment. Why SOA professes the tire pressures factory setting that they do, I'll never know.

    What happens if you modify the Evo Suspension? I have an 03, all I added was a Lower Arm bar stabolize, arm bars, and of course a Rear Sway bar. I aligned the car and got me a 1.7 Camber up front, car handles so neutral, so such thing as understeer, oversteers at the limit but it is just basically a controlable drift.


    IMHO the Evo handles really well but the stock Alignment is easilly improved upon. My stock camber was only 1.0, going from 1.0-1.7 is huge, but you need a rear sway bar to keep it undercontrol.
    Last edited by TSi AWD; 01-17-2005 at 04:16 PM.

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    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSi AWD
    WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! DA EVO CAN NEVER DA LOSE YO!!1111!1!!!


    Kidding aside...




    What happens if you modify the Evo Suspension? I have an 03, all I added was a Lower Arm bar stabolize, arm bars, and of course a Rear Sway bar. I aligned the car and got me a 1.7 Camber up front, car handles so neutral, so such thing as understeer, oversteers at the limit but it is just basically a controlable drift.


    IMHO the Evo handles really well but the stock Alignment is easilly improved upon. My stock camber was only 1.0, going from 1.0-1.7 is huge, but you need a rear sway bar to keep it undercontrol.
    I guess what I was trying to say is just a simple tire pressure adjustment totally changes the handling characteristics of an STi. From a slightly pushing car to a beutifully balanced and apexing car that can truly take advantage of the STi's rocket propulsion out of a corner. That is where the Evo typically has an advantage, as entry speeds can be higher on an Evo, but then the STi catches a bit past the exit. With the pressure changes, same entrance speeds can be achieved, and the advantage shifts to the STi due to it's exit speed and quicker boost.
    If you start to change other components, it's harder to compare, as often it's a driver's preference as to what they prefer. Both handle great.
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