Any plans for a WRX RS? - Page 2
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This is a discussion on Any plans for a WRX RS? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I'll be the individual here and say I think it would be a stupid idea. I never really understood it. ...

  1. #16
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    I'll be the individual here and say I think it would be a stupid idea. I never really understood it. The only purpose a car like that serves is for race purposes and the wrx is not really a race car, nor do I think it would sell at all. The Lancer Evo RS did pretty poorly in sales and I dont see a wrx version being any better.
    99.9% of wrx buyers are going to want power windows, power doors, A/C, etc.... Financially wise, it just does seem to be a smart move.
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  3. #17
    Registered User SonicYellowWRX's Avatar
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    the 2.0L STi engines are just built waaay stronger... and the gearing is better for performance. i wont waste my time arguing those who are less informed, so do a search. there's a thread over in nazicock for those interested in the 2.0 forum.

    as for the purpose of a stripped down model, its not gonna sell well to the general public. its sole purpose is to provide for those of us who actually race the car and dont need all that junk. just a shame mitsu didnt release a rally style version or at least the option for smaller brakes so people can fit rally wheels on there. subaru is leading the rally car segment in the US so it would make sense for them to sell a RA Spec C version here... just so all we gotta do is cage it, swap suspension, add safety equipment and rally it!
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  4. #18
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicYellowWRX
    the 2.0L STi engines are just built waaay stronger... and the gearing is better for performance. i wont waste my time arguing those who are less informed, so do a search. there's a thread over in nazicock for those interested in the 2.0 forum.

    as for the purpose of a stripped down model, its not gonna sell well to the general public. its sole purpose is to provide for those of us who actually race the car and dont need all that junk. just a shame mitsu didnt release a rally style version or at least the option for smaller brakes so people can fit rally wheels on there. subaru is leading the rally car segment in the US so it would make sense for them to sell a RA Spec C version here... just so all we gotta do is cage it, swap suspension, add safety equipment and rally it!
    Same heads, slightly lumpier cams, dual gallies (oil), and thicker wrist pins, an I believe the exact same pistons (smaller of course) but with heavier lands. I wouldn't call that "built way better". For those of us that are misinformed that is. Yeah, it's definitely got some better design, no question. From what I understand, they can run in the 350-400HP range with good longevity. Who's to say the 2.5 can't? It hasn't been out long enough to demonstrate.
    As for better better gearing for performance, I'd definitely argue with that. Compared to the US STi? Toss some numbers out. Compared to the US WRX, yes...undoubtebly. The only gearing issue I see with the 2.5 is the close ratio betwen 5th and 6th, but then, it's a matter of taste.
    Just to be curious, what does a JDM STi 2.0 long block cost? Or even a short block? I have no clue.
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  5. #19
    Registered User SonicYellowWRX's Avatar
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    thicker piston walls, nitride treated crank, better flowing heads (V8), a balanced engine revving in the range of 8000rpms to name a few other things. That plus the things you mentioned in addition to what is already available make this quite a strong engine.

    as for gearing, the ratios are closer in 5th and 6th on the JDM tranny. It is a matter of personal taste, but a closely geared box is generally better for performance as it keeps the engine in its powerband more effectively. here's your numbers for 5th and 6th gears, everything else is the same except for front differentials:
    JDM -- 1.062, 0.842
    USDM- 0.971, 0.756

    I understand you 2.5L STi guys are highly defensive and have reason to be since the detonation problems that occured when new, but I never said it cant make good power. In fact, on c16 one made 513whp and 420whp on 91 octane... however, we will have to see how long it lasts.

    To me, i'd still rather have a JDM 2.0L STi engine even if it makes less power cuz I like rev's and it is built stronger, which to me is more important cuz it suites my driving better and I like the extra margin of safety. Power is good but its not everything.
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  6. #20
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    er...understanding "we" are defensive is not truly understanding. Just trying to stick to facts and not broad-based statements.

    I also understand likes and dislikes. And one of my dislikes is generalizations. Not to prove a point or argue...I enjoy a good discussion as I tend to learn more and take away from it. Just lumping everyone into one category due to your own prejudices is a bit naive. For instance...have I experienced detonation? Nope. Do I have an STi? Yep. So where do I fit into the scheme of things.

    Now...I was able to find that Gruppe-S sells a V8 JDM STi for about 9K. That's a pretty penny without all of the support systems...you know...like fuel delivery, air intake, ECU, harness, turbo, upipe, downpipe, intercooler, etc. So lets say....15K, with labor (and thats being optimistic) to have that in one of our cars. Now...toss in the JDM 6MT (which, according to those in the know, must be had as it's gearing is better and who knows where you are at. BTW..isn't the only difference in the JDM 6mt and the US 6mt 5th and 6th gear?

    As I said previously, I believe the 2.0 JDM STi long block is better engineered than the STi. No question. But again, to say the US STi is incapable of matching it's performance or longevity is a bit premature. And please, stop with the generalizations. We are all individuals, not a group typified by either a single member, a majority, or a minority.

    So toss 15K into an STi...what could you get? I'm willing to bet as stout of an engine as the JDM, with even more responsiveness, power, and durability.

    I realize that each of our statements are likely based on an opinion, since to try to compare the 2 is technically not feasible, as the design structure is different (displacement differences on the same block inhereently calls for different approaches). Having owned a Spec C (grey market, UK), I can attest to their durability. But having owned both vehicles, I'll say this much...I'd have a hard choice choosing between the 2, but in the end, I'd probably go with the US version, just for it's lower end grunt, as that is something that can't be matched in the JDM version without boring/stroking. Then again, to match their mid/high range, we would have to upgrade wrist-pins and sleeves at a minimum (to keep durability). So it is still a hard choice.
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  7. #21
    Registered User SonicYellowWRX's Avatar
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    As for cost, many have gotten out the door with the engine down about $4000. Thats from selling their stock one. Transmission is a little less from what I can find. However, thats beside the point, as cost has nothing to do with any of this. If it did, then one can argue that a 10 yr old salvaged impreza w/ built engine swap will be a better bargain.

    And yes, 5th and 6th gear are closer in the JDM 6-speed, if you read my post with EXACT gear ratios posted you wouldnt need to ask twice.

    Now as for the performance and longevity of the 2.5L, there is no doubt it can make power. But for longevity, its a new engine so it hasnt been proven and it did have detonation issues when first released... so you'd have to excuse people for not saying its bullet proof. If the 2.0L was brand new, I'd still question its integrity at 400whp... only reason i dont is because its been proven.

    Anyways, if you are offended about me making generalizations, then tough. I only bring that up because being an owner of a car where others suffer many problems, its natural to worry. I've seen so many WRX owners explode over the mention of a "glass tranny" and clutch shudder. So, I'm not really discriminating against anyone or any group. On this site, the 2.0L guys have seperate forums from 2.5L guys, and so forth and so forth... so believe it or not, its not me making generalizations and lumping people into different groups. I hope this is satisfactory to you, if not you can pm me and i will ignore you.

    Now to get back on topic, yes, even a stripped down WRX version would be cool.
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  8. #22
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    It's come to my attention, due to your immature comments, that this discussion is not only innane, and assinine, it's a waste of my time. Ciao.
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  9. #23
    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicYellowWRX
    And yes, 5th and 6th gear are closer in the JDM 6-speed, if you read my post with EXACT gear ratios posted you wouldnt need to ask twice.
    5th and 6th are geared that way due to our lower redline, different powerband, and most likely for highway cruising. We can swap those in there if we want. 5th and 6th come together as a pair (can't be separated) so we don't need a whole tranny (replying to YBNormal here.)

    Quote Originally Posted by SonicYellowWRX
    Now as for the performance and longevity of the 2.5L, there is no doubt it can make power. But for longevity, its a new engine so it hasnt been proven and it did have detonation issues when first released...
    Right, the detonation issues were caused by the ECU not just the engine. Also, the engine is rated for 93 octane not piss-water 91, so I wonder why it detonates. My engine has never suffered any detonation, but then again I'm running the recommended octane (actually one better, 94.)

    I highly suspect that if you brought a JDM STi over here and tried to run it on 91 octane, without ECU changes, it would detonate too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SonicYellowWRX
    so you'd have to excuse people for not saying its bullet proof. If the 2.0L was brand new, I'd still question its integrity at 400whp... only reason i dont is because its been proven.
    Obviously the 2.5L hasn't been proven yet. Still, considering that tuners are just starting to get experience with the 2.5L, I'd say it is doing fairly well. Judging by what people are seeing out of the 2.5L with early mods, it appears that it will be capable of making more power than the 2.0L.
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  10. #24
    Registered User Matrix 1193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBNormal07
    Same heads, slightly lumpier cams, dual gallies (oil), and thicker wrist pins, an I believe the exact same pistons (smaller of course) but with heavier lands. I wouldn't call that "built way better". .
    dont forget the sodium filled valves. its not much better

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