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This is a discussion on 05 Mustang GT within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Here is another little secret: AWD has been banned from the pinnacle of all track-based motorsports for being too successful ...

  1. #46
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
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    Here is another little secret: AWD has been banned from the pinnacle of all track-based motorsports for being too successful and leading to extremely fast speeds around corners (hence dangerous as well). AWD dominates most motorsports, except that it is heavy penalized to make it competitive. Do your research next time tranverse leaf-spring boy. I wasn't even talking about the corvette of which the C5R is the penultimate corvette incarnate. I was mostly refering to comments made that because a car is faster in a strait line on the highway makes it a better car, which of course it doesn't. Fastest point-A to point-B cars (anywhere in the world) are still rally car derivatives, not sunny day only cars.
    Last edited by fengshui; 12-28-2004 at 01:04 PM.
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  3. #47
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    By the way...I havent come across any 4cyl turbos that can beat me in the quarter either. I have raced 8 of them now and the closest someone got was a modded STi that ran a 12.4 second to my 12.2 I am not dogging the turbo cars at all, I love em and used to have one, just look at my screenname. An AWD always gets a good jump on me but I always catch them about 80-90 mph and then pass them up pretty easily, its just the law of physics or something
    Last edited by EVOVIII; 12-28-2004 at 01:25 PM.

  4. #48
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    ^^^
    I agree.

    I never rag on another car, slower or faster. I respect all cars for what they are, Subaru, Ford, or Neon, it doesn't matter to me. I am only defending the Mustang GT because it is actually faster than the WRX to 60, 1/4 mile, and it pulls .90 g in the skidpad! Factor in that it costs the same....

    You have 2 totally different cars that are great performers and well woth the money. Not my fault some people are prejudice to certain cars that pose a threat... maybe they're jealous?


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  5. #49
    Moderator YBNormal07's Avatar
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    I like the new GT and enjoy a good muscle car as well as the next guy. Especially old school lead sleads, which unfortunately, the new GT is approaching is weight. It is quite the porker and with weight reduction and a better rear, will probably make a decent track car.

    EvoIII, I see your point and understand the thrill of a SC V8 outpulling most comers. However, at the track, your 4.6 SC is likely to get left behind by a capable driver in an STi.

    Southpaw...question(s)? Isn't the worlds fastest car driven by a jet engine? Maybe I'm mistaken. And as was kindly pointed out, if it weren't for the rules and regs (read: penalties) laid on AWD platforms in all "twisty" motorsports that they are allowed to compete in, the AWD folks would rule the tarmac. Witnes Audi's success and subsequent penilzation every time they start to dominate with their platform. It's all in the physics, and with 4 wheels motivating you, it just stand to reason that they would be faster. Can't help it that the current forums don't really allow them to truly flex their muscle, other than in Rally sports, but even there, IMHO, the glory days are over.
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  6. #50
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    Southpaw...question(s)? Isn't the worlds fastest car driven by a jet engine? Maybe I'm mistaken. And as was kindly pointed out, if it weren't for the rules and regs (read: penalties) laid on AWD platforms in all "twisty" motorsports that they are allowed to compete in, the AWD folks would rule the tarmac. Witnes Audi's success and subsequent penilzation every time they start to dominate with their platform. It's all in the physics, and with 4 wheels motivating you, it just stand to reason that they would be faster. Can't help it that the current forums don't really allow them to truly flex their muscle, other than in Rally sports, but even there, IMHO, the glory days are over.
    No YB, you're not mistaken, I SAID IT WAS REAR WHEEL DRIVE.

    I don't understand how you can argue this topic. The fastest cars in the world are RWD! How can I freakin' say that in any other way!?!? Ever heard of drag racing? How about Formula 1? Nascar? The Ferrari Enzo? C'mon, you can complain for ever that AWD is superior, and I do not argue with that. But you have to accept the facts.


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  8. #52
    Registered User John M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVOVIII
    By the way...I havent come across any 4cyl turbos that can beat me in the quarter either. I have raced 8 of them now and the closest someone got was a modded STi that ran a 12.4 second to my 12.2 I am not dogging the turbo cars at all, I love em and used to have one, just look at my screenname. An AWD always gets a good jump on me but I always catch them about 80-90 mph and then pass them up pretty easily, its just the law of physics or something
    Here's just a quick list of 239 2-liter 4 cylinders that are faster than you in the 1/4.

    http://www.dsmtimes.org/awd.htm

    Who can't buy a blown v8 car? It's been done for 50+ years; it's hardly a challenge. I'd prefer to do it in a full sleeper. My car will have a 100% stock appearance when it runs 11s. I'm just waiting on the big turbos to be available for the Legacy engine. Then my puny 2.5 liter will start making some power.

    The fastest cars may be RWD but you don't drive them every day either. They may be great for sunny afternoons but life isn't always like that.

    Let's face it - I dropped $30k on my Legacy. I could have bought a beautiful 03-04 Cobra for that and had money for mods too. Instead I'm in a plain looking (and partially de-badged) Subaru sedan, and I'm laughing all the way!
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  9. #53
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOUTHPAW
    No YB, you're not mistaken, I SAID IT WAS REAR WHEEL DRIVE.

    I don't understand how you can argue this topic. The fastest cars in the world are RWD! How can I freakin' say that in any other way!?!? Ever heard of drag racing? How about Formula 1? Nascar? The Ferrari Enzo? C'mon, you can complain for ever that AWD is superior, and I do not argue with that. But you have to accept the facts.


    ...
    The facts are still that the fastest cars in the world you listed are RWD because they are limited by rules and regulations that way. They would be much faster around racing circuits if restrictions on AWD were lifted and manufacturers raced more AWD cars. Manufacturers like Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, don't push AWD in their performance lineups because of mainly cost and tradition and that their cars would sell to folks regardless. But when you say the fastest cars in the world are RWD, you must specify where. Not at Pike's Peak, not on almost all B-roads in the WORLD, not through the desert (DAKAR anyone?), and not years ago when AWD F1 cars passed on the outside and Audi dominated Trans Am and to this day kicks butt at SCCA Speed GT. I suggest reading up on slip angles and the advantages of 4 driven wheels to 2 before attempting to educate with assumptions.
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  10. #54
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    Geeze, is this even worth arguing over? Different concepts (AWD, FWD, RWD) are designed to meet different criteria based on cost, weight, driving situation, fuel economy, vehicle dynamics, blah blah blah...

    Each individual vehicle has their own unique characteristics that make people who own them love the way the package was put together. Claiming your particular package is by far superior to anything else out there is an insult to those that happened to choose something different. And there will always be an example of something faster, and someone will always load up statements with "ifs and buts" to defend their position. Doesn't it get tiring?

    Try to learn to appreciate vehicles that were done a different way, but still are fast and enjoyable to drive. This thread has become nearly worse than the drunken hillbillies that sit around bars arguing about why Chevrolet is better than Ford in NASCAR...

    Love it or leave it, but don't hate it.


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  11. #55
    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
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    We accept all forms of car people on the forum. But to justify personal decisions in selling AWD 4cyl turbo cars for large displacement v8s by putting the 4cyl cars down in unacceptable. Cars all excel at one category or another, its just certain compromises must be given based upon vehicle selection. The rally derived pocket rockets make very few compromises. The front heavy RWD muscle cars must take precaution in extremely bad weather (dedicated snows instead of all seasons, for example) where AWD cars have more traction.

    American Muscles cars are nothing new. This generation of cars from Ford, GM, Chrysler are finally catching up to the muscle cars of days gone past before they were starved for emissions, and some are even handling better (although not by much ). But what irks some is that the big three are selling cars based on old technology to the masses who don't know any better. They are not forced to sink tons into R&D and as a result they just add mroe displacement into their CIB, pushrod engines. In Japan where the gentlemen's agreement has kept "official" HP down to 280, the technology achievements have been amazing. Such technology as Subaru's DCCD, Mitsu's ACD/AYC, Nissan's ATTESSA-ETS, the sharp road course handling of the NSX-R, active suspension and aerodynamics, twin scroll turbo systems, etc. Some just believe that LIFE is about progression in all things including technology, and they want that in their daily driven road vehicles.
    Last edited by fengshui; 12-29-2004 at 07:35 AM.
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  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengshui
    Highway racing = the pinnacle of motorsports

    BHAHAHAWHAHWHJDLFHAA

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  13. #57
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    Its true Josh. I hear Micheal Schumacher just signed with the i-95 Highway Racing team and Marcus Gronholm will be campaigning a works Fox body Mustang GT. He has a shot for the title as long as he can keep his pedal pressed to the floor the longest. Such skillz
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengshui
    But what irks some is that the big three are selling cars based on old technology to the masses who don't know any better. They are not forced to sink tons into R&D and as a result they just add mroe displacement into their CIB, pushrod engines.

    Well, one thing that's nice about the new mustang is it's the first mustang completly redesigned. A completly new chasis that is supposed to be considerably better than anything before it. The motor is a mach 1 short block, with new 3 valve heads witch are OHC, and I belive they have some kind of V-tech type thing. It does have a solid rear axle witch will hurt the handling compared to IRS. But, even so acorrding to all the mags, it handles much better than any other production mustang to date. That's from mustang only mags, witch probably has more credit than some other mags. And seems to be much more refined than the past mustangs, like speaks and rattles etc.

    In my eye's it's a great car, not that japan's 4's aren't. But, it is a great package and the only car out that made me decide to part out my 350 whp wrx and sell it to get one. It's a great looking car with good hanlding, and a motor that can make alot of power. Mach's can get in to the 11's pretty easy, and I think the new GT's will be the same.

  15. #59
    Official ClubWRX arms dealer SOUTHPAW's Avatar
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    We accept all forms of car people on the forum. But to justify personal decisions in selling AWD 4cyl turbo cars for large displacement v8s by putting the 4cyl cars down in unacceptable. Cars all excel at one category or another, its just certain compromises must be given based upon vehicle selection. The rally derived pocket rockets make very few compromises. The front heavy RWD muscle cars must take precaution in extremely bad weather (dedicated snows instead of all seasons, for example) where AWD cars have more traction.

    ALL WHEEL DRIVE IS BETTER !!!

    That's obvious. And who is putting down 4 cyl cars? Please specify...


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