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This is a discussion on Lost to an A4 (sneaky) within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally posted by chuglobal It's all good. I wish I knew more people w/ DIFFERENT cars so we could all ...

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by chuglobal
    It's all good. I wish I knew more people w/ DIFFERENT cars so we could all have friendly races.
    I keep figuring I'd run into you sometime with the Z. Lately I have seen several debadged WRX's (silver and a blue one with a front mount) on 285. My 1/8 time is about the same as yours so it would be fun. After we race though you must take me for ride in your car.

    George
    02 WRX - auto, Blaze Yellow

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  3. #32
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    Absolutely not, the S4 is A LOT FASTER
    Granted a modified S4 is much faster than a modified A4, but a properly modified A4, using one of 2 available kits for $4,000, will beat a stock S4, and hangs well with a chipped S4

  4. #33
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    hey again

    Dark_Rex,

    At least for my car with the stock KO3 turbo, boost was 15psi from 2300rpm-5500rpm... No such thing as lag. But like you said, small turbo runs out of steam. When i was chipped/exhaust i crawled away from a BMW 330ci coupe on multiple runs from 50-120mph...But with AWD you will decide the race at launch What frustrated me was the lack of a redline...i want turbo cars to be strong up top, and the KO3 cannot be so. Finally note there is a race program for the KO3 which is potent, figure another 20hp from it, but it requires 100 octane. APR tuner offers multiple programs on the fly accepting up to 104 octane. GIAC is working on a similar system which uses a fob to change programs.

    Flyboy,

    i like WRXs alot, and the thing about em is its cheap to get significant power (stage 0 is like 1500 installed?!) but a little more than an MBC is needed to hang with my car (thank goodness.) I cannot wait to run into a stage 0 WRX or higher to see what happens.

    PlatinumWRX,

    You are a bit mistaken about the S4. The S4 is a nose heavy pig, weighs 300lb more than an A4. A chip makes an S4 300hp/360ft-lb. Then an exhaust nets you a total of ~320hp/370ft-lb. It is fast, but we locals have run big-turbo A4s v. Stage 2 S4's (that would be chip + exhaust) and the A4 matches em in the straights, and eats em in the corners (mind you the A4 was not using 100 octane race program, just 93 pump program) The A4 is ALOT cheaper to start, and mods are cheaper generally.

    Remember also the S4 has terrible packaging, the turbos fail on them more than occasionally (heck, i have a local friend who is going through this now). While there are big turbo kits for the S4 from MTM, AWE, APR (480hp on race gas, 430hp on 93 pump) its a 6k kit and labor amounts to 1k+ since the engine has to be pulled. Essentially the big turbo kit for the S4 is the turbo package from the RS4.

    Contrasted to that, the 1.8T is bulletproof (originally started life as a diesel block) and there are 2 kits out now, and 3 more in development (close to finish) which all give big power. I can honestly say i would rather have a big turbo A4 over a chipped S4 from a reliability point-of-view (i almost bought an S4 but decided against it.) With a FMIC you can run, safely, ~300+hp from 1.5bar+ of boost. Heck, for that 6k cost of the S4 kit you can have PES make a built 2.0L that will handle 2 bar boost. Many A4s have been running large kits for 20k+ and the couple that have had problems were from abuse or improper installs.

    While more power is possible with far more $$$ the S4 will always be a front-heavy pig. It was designed as an executive rocket. The handling is the problem that even H&R coilovers cannot cure. The A4 is a carver (as much as a 3000lb+ car can be) For the normal-hardcore enthusiast who might be willing to spend up to 5-10k total on mods, an A4 can be made faster, handle much better, and be more durable.

    Im not trying to hijack the board guys, just answering some questions some people posed.

    Cheers,
    Sameer
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

  5. #34
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    Re: hey again

    Originally posted by Lawrider
    Dark_Rex,

    You are a bit mistaken about the S4. The S4 is a nose heavy pig, weighs 300lb more than an A4. A chip makes an S4 300hp/360ft-lb. Then an exhaust nets you a total of ~320hp/370ft-lb. It is fast, but we locals have run big-turbo A4s v. Stage 2 S4's (that would be chip + exhaust) and the A4 matches em in the straights, and eats em in the corners (mind you the A4 was not using 100 octane race program, just 93 pump program) The A4 is ALOT cheaper to start, and mods are cheaper generally.

    Remember also the S4 has terrible packaging, the turbos fail on them more than occasionally (heck, i have a local friend who is going through this now). While there are big turbo kits for the S4 from MTM, AWE, APR (480hp on race gas, 430hp on 93 pump) its a 6k kit and labor amounts to 1k+ since the engine has to be pulled. Essentially the big turbo kit for the S4 is the turbo package from the RS4.

    I concur with the above being a former 01 S4 owner. Audi basically screwed up on that one. I had an MTM ECU and exhaust, sure it was damn fast up top, but only in a straight line. When a Jaguar can beat you in the twisties and the pucker factor is so high with lift throttle unsettling of the rear it's time to bail out. The M Roadster is another twitchy butt car, but is 1000% more sorted out than the S4.
    03 WR Blue WRX
    Factory Short Shifter
    Stock

  6. #35
    Registered User Dan00Hawk's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Lawrider: What color is your A4? I'll keep an eye out for you when I'm running around the western burbs. I ran across a white stock WRX with two white guys (nice people) on Higgins in Schaumburg last Friday night. Somewhat similar results with me ahead by a fair # of cars by 80 mph... Would be ironic if that was CoffinRocker also. I'm a blue WRX 5 speed, with black Morette headlights, silver 17" Subzeros, and a stage 1 unichip and stock exhaust. I ran a 14.4 at 93mph two weeks ago at US41 when still stock in 82 degree weather. Figure I'm near 14.1 or better when things cool off a bit.

    Or if you see a pewter Firehawk convertible that's loud and cammin' hard, that's me too. That one's just a wee bit faster.

    Regarding the S4 that blew the turbos, was that a lowered silver S4 with graphics all over it and sponsored by some paintless dent removal place? German or Polish guy who owns it and also has a blue 2001 M3? If so, he hangs out at the autocrosses in Joliet that I participate in. Just curious.

    Either way, I think you hit the nail on the head when referencing mutual respect between the Audi and the Subaru groups. Nice to see other enthusiasts out there who are able to appreciate other vehicles besides the one they own.

    Keep the shiny side up!


    2007 VW GTI 6 spd. No times yet
    2000 Firehawk convertible 6spd- 12.52 @ 114.7 mph. 2.09 60'

    Sold: 2004 Mini Cooper S. 14.95 @ 93.8 mph.
    Sold: 2004 GTO 6 spd. 13.4 @ 104.5 mph
    Sold: 2002 WRX 5spd. 13.39 @100.7 mph. 1.81 60'

  7. #36
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    ..

    Dan00Hawk,

    My A4 is the only color they come in, silver/black On the north side there are a couple of big-hairdryer A4s running around, even one in the Milwaukee area. I see S4s up in that area all the time.

    Id love to run your Firehawk. My close friend has a 94 LT1 Firebird with Borlas on it, sounds divine, ive ordered him to sell it to me when he gets out of school.

    People who have my setup have run 13.1-13.5's (timeslip proven) I get a real clutch put in next week, so for now im not launching over 4k...well im not supposed to anyways

    The S4 you are referring to is yet another one, i know of 3 local in addition to your friend, that have had turbos blow out Any chance you are part of the Joliet Sports Car autocross group? Ive always been meaning to take my Miata down to those, ive chatted with the guy who runs that white Miata with the white Kosei wheels (he used to have a TT)

    Cheers
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

  8. #37
    Registered User pace's Avatar
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    I guess Conffinrocker demonstrated for us why it's generally a bad idea to lie about street races on a public forum. You did admit that you lost, but then you unfortunately felt the need to fabricate an excuse. Lesson learned I guess.



    -Pace

  9. #38
    Registered User Dan00Hawk's Avatar
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    Law: You're right on about the Joliet Sports Car Club. http://home.attbi.com/~tomcolt3/jscc.html They don't have any classes except based on times. So run whatchya brung, no SCCA classifications. The white Miata you mentioned is sweet, I remember it well. He was running 51.x lap times, while I managed a best of 52.5 in the WRX on Kuhmo 712 street tires. I'm trying to resist the urge to throw on some race rubber on the WRX to see if I can get down to his level. There's usually a few M3's, Mustangs, F-bodies, Vettes, Audis, and a few various other cars. Total # running ends up being about 30-35, and it's a well organized event with easy going and fun people. I'm hooked, and love the simplicity of how they run it.

    I'm installing a new 12 bolt rearend into the Firehawk this weekend. Gotta love the fact that GM throws a glass rearend in a 300 HP car. I'm running Stage 2 ported heads/cam/intake and full exhaust, among other boltons and suspension work. It dynoed at 412 RWHP on motor a few months ago before the rear end started deteriorating after 20 laps at Road America. It's a heavy 3900+ lb convertible with the driver, so I'm expecting to see a low 12 sec at 115 timeslip out of it provided I can launch and shift it. It all means nothing without a timeslip though, so I'm anxious to hit the track soon to see if the driver is worthy enough... Takes some time to get accustomed to the differences in driving both cars.

    In the meantime, I'll be wary of silver/black A4's taking the holeshot on me.


    2007 VW GTI 6 spd. No times yet
    2000 Firehawk convertible 6spd- 12.52 @ 114.7 mph. 2.09 60'

    Sold: 2004 Mini Cooper S. 14.95 @ 93.8 mph.
    Sold: 2004 GTO 6 spd. 13.4 @ 104.5 mph
    Sold: 2002 WRX 5spd. 13.39 @100.7 mph. 1.81 60'

  10. #39
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    Originally posted by pace
    I guess Conffinrocker demonstrated for us why it's generally a bad idea to lie about street races on a public forum. You did admit that you lost, but then you unfortunately felt the need to fabricate an excuse. Lesson learned I guess.



    -Pace

    yep, then you tuck your tail and hide!!

    i'd wager that he's been back to read the posts since starting the thread. and he's had nothing more to say?
    i guess that's better than trying to argue or make things worse in other manners. at least an 'oops, i'm sorry guys' would be nice.

  11. #40
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    :)

    Dan00Firehawk,

    Ya you hit the nail on the head, while having two very different cars is great because each does what the other does not, it does get hard to drive each really well. I don't drive alot to begin with (i metra downtown) so my Audi, for instance, has only 22k on it and its 3 years old. So i get real comfortable throwing the Miata around and somehow my 3000lb+ Audi complains when i ask the same from it So each time i push one or the other i have to get re-acquainted all over again. Ahh the pain of multi-car ownership

    The only way im gonna take your Firebird is if you let me disable 4 plug wires first I lined up with a Lightining last night but he didn't want to play.

    BTW, FYI downtown Downers Grove has some kind of car show quite often on Friday and/or Saturday nights...when i roll through there its dozens of classic 60's hot rods, a few modern cars, and yesterday i even saw a riced out Civic with neon and a system. People are parked with hoods up, and lots of people walking up and down the road. You might want to check it out.

    A few of my friends do the Joliet autocrosses...i think the Tirerack autocross at South Bend is next weekend, the CVO (Chi-VW org) Autocross #3 was this weekend.

    Glepko,

    And all others who inputed into this thread, i appreciate how cool you all are about Coffinrocker's BS...i was kinda thinking id get flamed here, but im happy that y'all put cars before ego.

    Now i can't wait to run into Coffinrocker again...

    Cheers
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

  12. #41
    Registered User Maximumpete's Avatar
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    Question Question

    Question:Where in the hell do you all get your money for these mods! LOL Good heavens what kind of gas mileage are you getting with all that boost? Just wondering and starting to regret I didn't finish college.
    God bless all.
    Pete
    Blitz Turbo Timer, TurboXS mbc, uppipe, Samco intercooler hoses, TurboXS Unichip (stage 1), TurboXS intake, Vishnu downpipe.

  13. #42
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    :)

    Maximumpete,

    I assume your asking me, so ill answer.

    The sweet kicker is that fuel economy wise, big turbo A4s actually get better fuel economy because, quite simply, you are in the boost less. The KO3 (stock A4 turbo) is a small one that i and others end up working very, very hard. When you get a big hairdryer, you are not at WOT nearly as often, you are not asking for full boost near as often as well. So...hard driving i used to average 22-25mpg, and highway 28-30 mpg. I can expect the mileage to increase by a couple mpg per duty cycle listed above...i can drive much more gently, and still get the same power as my KO3 did with full boost.

    In terms of paying for mods, well, that's what jobs are for. I happen to be an attorney, so i can play like a big boy. But i budget like anyone else...building up the Audi for 2 years, the Miata for one year.

    Cheers
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

  14. #43
    Registered User Red Rocket's Avatar
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    Re: hey again

    Originally posted by Lawrider
    PlatinumWRX,

    You are a bit mistaken about the S4. The S4 is a nose heavy pig, weighs 300lb more than an A4. A chip makes an S4 300hp/360ft-lb. Then an exhaust nets you a total of ~320hp/370ft-lb. It is fast, but we locals have run big-turbo A4s v. Stage 2 S4's (that would be chip + exhaust) and the A4 matches em in the straights, and eats em in the corners (mind you the A4 was not using 100 octane race program, just 93 pump program) The A4 is ALOT cheaper to start, and mods are cheaper generally.

    Remember also the S4 has terrible packaging, the turbos fail on them more than occasionally (heck, i have a local friend who is going through this now). While there are big turbo kits for the S4 from MTM, AWE, APR (480hp on race gas, 430hp on 93 pump) its a 6k kit and labor amounts to 1k+ since the engine has to be pulled. Essentially the big turbo kit for the S4 is the turbo package from the RS4.

    Contrasted to that, the 1.8T is bulletproof (originally started life as a diesel block) and there are 2 kits out now, and 3 more in development (close to finish) which all give big power. I can honestly say i would rather have a big turbo A4 over a chipped S4 from a reliability point-of-view (i almost bought an S4 but decided against it.) With a FMIC you can run, safely, ~300+hp from 1.5bar+ of boost. Heck, for that 6k cost of the S4 kit you can have PES make a built 2.0L that will handle 2 bar boost. Many A4s have been running large kits for 20k+ and the couple that have had problems were from abuse or improper installs.

    While more power is possible with far more $$$ the S4 will always be a front-heavy pig. It was designed as an executive rocket. The handling is the problem that even H&R coilovers cannot cure. The A4 is a carver (as much as a 3000lb+ car can be) For the normal-hardcore enthusiast who might be willing to spend up to 5-10k total on mods, an A4 can be made faster, handle much better, and be more durable.

    Im not trying to hijack the board guys, just answering some questions some people posed.

    Cheers,
    Sameer
    Daaaamn.......

    I friend of mine at work just traded in his 2.8 A4 for an S4..........I'm sure he hasn't read an evaluation of the car like that...ouch.

    I guess he doesn't spend enough time outside the audiworld S4 forums.......

    Kevin

  15. #44
    Registered User Maximumpete's Avatar
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    Cool

    Lawrider, LOL well I'm a big boy too but no where as big as you (Just a manager for a small company). So do you have any advice if any of us end up in court while enjoying our vice (speed)? I understand that all state and local governments are not the same but there surely must be enough similarities in procedure that you could give us a rough outline other than spending $200 per hour for legal advice and councel.

    Pete
    Blitz Turbo Timer, TurboXS mbc, uppipe, Samco intercooler hoses, TurboXS Unichip (stage 1), TurboXS intake, Vishnu downpipe.

  16. #45
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    :)

    My advice is not to speed Actually im a criminal prosecutor, so i don't get tickets, but i don't speed either, honestly. My thing is curves, i just don't like to slow down for em

    Truthfully the best thing when you face a court date for a ticket is to retain an attorney who specializes in small time stuff like traffic court, these guys will be wandering the halls of the courthouse and in the yellow pages. Since the court knows them, they can often get you supervision, etc...

    Cheers
    99.5 A4 1.8T28
    P.E.S. T28 Turbo Kit, Racetec Z-Flo FMIC, 1/8 Test Pipe w/Milltek Exhaust, Vortrag Hypercoil Springs over Bilstein Sports (450lb/500lb), W.O.A. Stage II Clutch, Racetec 4-pt Strut Brace, A.W.E. A Pillar Boost Gauge, Bailey BPV, Valeo E-Codes w/ Phillips 5300K H.I.D., APR Snubbie, Strat cartridge SSK, S4 Vented Wheel Liner, Brembo Rotors w/ Hawk HPS Pads(F)/EBC Greens(R), Denso Iridium IK-22's, Hella Supertones, O.Z. 17" SL's w/ Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, Alpine CDA-7894, MB Quart QSD 213, Rockford Fosgate 501.1bd, Alpine SWR-1241D, P.P.I. A.400, 35% Llumar Charcoal tint, UUC RKII, RS-4 Grille.
    "Building boost, breakin hearts"

    94 Miata C Package (a.k.a. Nougat)
    Flying Miata's FM2 intercooled GT28 turbo kit, Shiv fuel rail, AEM wideband O2, FM turbo exhaust, R.S. Aizawa Slash Intake Lid, KYB AGX's, HDHCDD 4-Point rollbar, FM NA clutch, FM F+R swaybars, Hella E-Code H4 Conversions, CRI Fogs, CRI Air Horns, Lewis Lumbars, Momo Monte Carlo, Rota Circuit 8's 15" with Toyo T1-S's, Pioneer Premier DEH-P440 with Infiniti Kappas 6 1/2 (doors), Infiniti Kappas 3 1/2 (headrests), some chrome bits, Voodoo.
    "It's not how fast you go, its how little you slow down...but 9.5hp/lb helps!"

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