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This is a discussion on Viper hunting? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Happened to see a few vipers this weekend while out and about. I really like how the cars look, and ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Red Rocket's Avatar
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    Viper hunting?

    Happened to see a few vipers this weekend while out and about. I really like how the cars look, and maybe could have bought one instaid of the sti, but wasn't thinking about it. They're just pimp as hell, fast and handle decently I guess. This got me wondering how fast they really are, because hopefully I'll get to race one eventually. I'm hoping for roughly a 12.0 in the 1/4 at 116 mph from my car eventually....we'll see if that becomes a reality.

    I found this guide online:

    http://www.dodge-vipers.com/production.html

    Has alot of claimed 1/4 mile times. Anywhere from 12.9 to 11.8, depending on the model. The most common one, the GTS is listed as either 12.4@118 or 12.0@122, depending on the year, but with the same power and weight. How do they really do? How is traction for them on the street? I assume they are very fast in a highway roll.

    Your thoughts?

    thanks,

    Kevin
    '04 STi Blue/Gold

    XS500/UTEC/UR 785cc/MRT TMIC/3" Catless/AVO Turbo inlet/APS 70mm CAI/AVC-R/JIC FLT-A2/SSR Type-C

    ECUTEK!!!!

    349.3 WHP, Dyno Dynamics, 100 octane (torco)

    ~450 bhp

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    Re: Viper hunting?

    Originally posted by Red Rocket
    Happened to see a few vipers this weekend while out and about. I really like how the cars look, and maybe could have bought one instaid of the sti, but wasn't thinking about it. They're just pimp as hell, fast and handle decently I guess. This got me wondering how fast they really are, because hopefully I'll get to race one eventually. I'm hoping for roughly a 12.0 in the 1/4 at 116 mph from my car eventually....we'll see if that becomes a reality.

    I found this guide online:

    http://www.dodge-vipers.com/production.html

    Has alot of claimed 1/4 mile times. Anywhere from 12.9 to 11.8, depending on the model. The most common one, the GTS is listed as either 12.4@118 or 12.0@122, depending on the year, but with the same power and weight. How do they really do? How is traction for them on the street? I assume they are very fast in a highway roll.

    Your thoughts?

    thanks,

    Kevin
    Even if you could get the jump on onw from a roll, you wouldn't last long before the aero gets you... Don't forget, we drive breadboxes on wheels!

    Another thing you might be forgetting is that WHP is not simply enough.... You need torque too... it might be a little hard to bump your torque up to the 500+ft. lb that the newer Vipers have without some engine work.

    you will need a lot more torque and whp than than a Viper to beat one simply because the extra power is needed to compensate for the carppy Cd. that our cars have.

    As for the discrepancy between the times and traps, I am not sure... I know that Dodge initially had the 400HP model out, then went to the 450Hp GTS, and now to the 500HP convertables.... I would guess they will bump it up to 550HP when the coupe comes out

    As for the trap speeds, they might have been using the roadsters with the top off for the slower trap speeds, and the coupes in some of the races also...

    I am thinking that at those speeds, the difference in areodynamics between the coupe and roadster are playing some role in how fast the car is going when it passes the timing lights.
    02 WRX WRBP sedan..
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    uh jigga you might be forgetting, HP = TQ * (RPM/5252). Torque is simply the relationship between horsepower and what rpm it is generated at. Two motors that make identicle hp but different amounts of "peak torque" should perform nearly identically; the one with the higher torque rating no doubt makes its peak HP at a lower rpm. The "higher torque" is offset by the correction in gear ratios to maintain the same speed/gear, thus equaling the same torque at the wheels. 300*2 = 200*3....

    jeff
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    Registered User BobbyD's Avatar
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    i really dont think you need more whp than a viper to beat it. I know most vipers weigh around 3500 pounds, so atleast we have a slight weight advantage. I think its possible for a wrx with around 400 at the wheels to hang or possibly beat a viper.

    -BobbyD
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    I think we could beat a viper with 350 whp in a quarter.
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    Armed with a rotated Precision 6265 turbo at 35psi and a built 2.5 liter.

  7. #6
    Registered User Red Rocket's Avatar
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    Actually, the viper GTS has a coefficinent of drag of only .35, which is worse than the wrx's .33....hahhaaha. The RT/10 convertable has a horrific .55 Cd with the top down, .45 with the top up, signfigantly worse than a ford explorer's .41 Cd. Check this out, that I happened to come across:

    http://www.darklair.com/cd.html

    The Z06 has a .29........so watch out. Amazingly, a WRX is more aero than a 911 coupe, a camaro, or a mustang.

    Torque is pretty irrellevant, for racing, as long as you have a strong and somewhat flat power band from 5000 rpm to redline. Only thing torque means is there is decent power at low RPM's.

    Weight wise, the vipers are around a 3400 lb curb weight stock. My STi is around 3100 lb at the moment, give or take, almost 10% lighter than the viper.

    Then I guess it comes down to power, or whp specifically. Granded, I'm not expecting to make much more than around 425 hp at the crank on 93 octane with my current setup once its's tuned, and we loose more with the sti's drivetrain. So go figure. Maybe an upgrade to a FMIC and a larger compressor wheel (52 or 56 trim GT37, or maybe the whole CHRA) will be in order when I'm ready to step it up a bit.

    Kevin
    '04 STi Blue/Gold

    XS500/UTEC/UR 785cc/MRT TMIC/3" Catless/AVO Turbo inlet/APS 70mm CAI/AVC-R/JIC FLT-A2/SSR Type-C

    ECUTEK!!!!

    349.3 WHP, Dyno Dynamics, 100 octane (torco)

    ~450 bhp

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    looks like I need a honda insight.
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    Armed with a rotated Precision 6265 turbo at 35psi and a built 2.5 liter.

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    Registered User 2004JadeSTi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by BobbyD
    I think its possible for a wrx with around 400 at the wheels to hang or possibly beat a viper.

    -BobbyD
    lol....you hit my eventual goal on the head

    I really want to be able to line up against a Viper, ZO6 or KB Cobra and be able to beat them, yet still have a car that's completely streetable with full interior and reliable.

    Possible? I've got faith, and will find out!
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  10. #9
    Registered User stevebennett's Avatar
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    Any of you guys actually driven a viper, around town or on a track? I haven't driven the new ones, but considering the old models, i'd take a slightly modded STi any day. I don't like my pedals almost equally spaced, a hard to feel shifter, putting my legs forward and to the left instead of forward. They're definitely fast, but I couldn't imagine wanting one for a daily driver. Too tiring. I think you made a good choice with an STi. Quarter times shouldn't be everything, just enjoy your car.

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    I raced a new convertible viper last week on my bike. I was riding down the highway on my sv650 going around 70 when a viper goes blowing by me and then slams on his brakes and gets even with me. I look over and it's probably a 65 year old man driving the viper with dealer plates. We both make eye contact and he gives the signal by pointing foward, I drop a few gears and we're off. I pull away from him up to about 120(not sure how far ahead I am by this point) but I can hear him gaining some ground on me as I got over a 120mph. My exit was coming up so I shut down and look over at him and we both give the thumbs up.

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    Registered User SGOSWRX's Avatar
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    I beat a newish Viper at our local 1/8 mile. You have to love that.

    I smoked him off the line big time and he didn't have enough track to catch me. I'm just lucky it was only an 1/8 mile.

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    Originally posted by SGOSWRX
    I beat a newish Viper at our local 1/8 mile. You have to love that.

    I smoked him off the line big time and he didn't have enough track to catch me. I'm just lucky it was only an 1/8 mile.
    Apparently, you can beat everything.

    Anyway, i would think an STI could give a Viper or even a Z06 fits on a 1/8 mile track, even a 1/4 mile track if the Viper or Z06 owner wasn't proficient with their cars. But let's be real, given equal driver, you should not be beating Vipers or Z06s. They still run better times than you and trap significantly higher.

    You just must be able to sqeek every last ounce of power out of your car and the likewise cannot be said about the drivers you face.
    2005 NBP Accord EX-V6 6MT
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  14. #13
    Registered User Digitalfiend's Avatar
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    I would imagine the 1/8 mile would be the STi's playground. AWD launch + good mid-range powerband + short gearing.

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    You guys MUST be drinkin pimp juice... NO WRX of any kind will even come CLOSE to a Gen 3 Viper.

    An STi *might* hang well with a Gen 1 Viper. They are close in times in the 1/4.

    The Gen 2 Viper GTS is VERY fast. I have raced and driven Gen 1's and Gen 2's.

    The Gen 3 Viper with 500 HP has already been documented to put out 520+ wheel HP with only a little exhuast work and a better filter. They are lighter than any other Generation and are rated at 11.7 @ 122+ in the 1/4 with a good driver. A 520 WHP version is probably capable of a high 10 second run. Bring your Sti with 400 HP of giggle gas!

    A KB Cobra (Kenne Bell) with a upgraded KB blower will SLAUGHTER any STi on the street today. Granted you might give him heck OFF THE LINE, but remember a STOCK Cobra is rated as fast as the STi 0-60. I have pulled a 1.89 60' on stock rubber... KB's are in the NASTY FAST Supra range.... VERY SICK!

    I've driven the STi, owned a modded Cobra, Driven a Gen 1 Viper and a Gen 2 Viper, and raced MANY Z06's.... The STi, although VERY fast and capable, is not going to come close to a Gen 2, Gen 3 Viper. You will need MANY mods IMHO.

    Even the 1/8 mile you will not come CLOSE to a Gen 3 Viper.

    BTW: I dont know anything about your bike, but I have raced several 600cc and 750cc bullet bikes with my modded 03 Cobra. I beat EVERY ONE of them on a highway race. I think your bike is SUPER fast (like a 9 second bike) or the Gen 3 Viper driver did not know how to drive. Bikes are VERY beatable on the highway. There quickness is mostly off-the-line.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by 03Cobra; 05-17-2004 at 12:48 PM.
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    Originally posted by 03Cobra
    You guys MUST be drinkin pimp juice... NO WRX of any kind will even come CLOSE to a Gen 3 Viper.

    An STi *might* hang well with a Gen 1 Viper. They are close in times in the 1/4.

    The Gen 2 Viper GTS is VERY fast. I have raced and driven Gen 1's and Gen 2's.

    The Gen 3 Viper with 500 HP has already been documented to put out 520+ wheel HP with only a little exhuast work and a better filter. They are lighter than any other Generation and are rated at 11.7 @ 122+ in the 1/4 with a good driver. A 520 WHP version is probably capable of a high 10 second run. Bring your Sti with 400 HP of giggle gas!

    A KB Cobra (Kenne Bell) with a upgraded KB blower will SLAUGHTER any STi on the street today. Granted you might give him heck OFF THE LINE, but remember a STOCK Cobra is rated as fast as the STi 0-60. I have pulled a 1.89 60' on stock rubber... KB's are in the NASTY FAST Supra range.... VERY SICK!

    I've driven the STi, owned a modded Cobra, Driven a Gen 1 Viper and a Gen 2 Viper, and raced MANY Z06's.... The STi, although VERY fast and capable, is not going to come close to a Gen 2, Gen 3 Viper. You will need MANY mods IMHO.

    Even the 1/8 mile you will not come CLOSE to a Gen 3 Viper.

    BTW: I dont know anything about your bike, but I have raced several 600cc and 750cc bullet bikes with my modded 03 Cobra. I beat EVERY ONE of them on a highway race. I think your bike is SUPER fast (like a 9 second bike) or the Gen 3 Viper driver did not know how to drive. Bikes are VERY beatable on the highway. There quickness is mostly off-the-line.

    Good luck.
    You know what man, let's be real for a second. Sometimes you act like the WRX guys are the ones full of ****.

    I check out the SVTperformance board every so often and they have as many bull****ters as every other internet board. Hey, my pullied '03 Cobra beat an R6, let's have a circle jerk about it. Or I beat a S/C Z06 in my pullied and chipped Cobra, the terminator is the baddest thing on earth.

    I'm sick and tired of some of these message boards. ****ty drivers are everywhere and they drive every kind of car. I've seen '03 Cobra's run low 13s...so they can lose to STI's. And if '03 Cobra's that run high 12s can beat Vipers, then why is it so hard to believe that an STI could as well?

    Double standards suck ass. And I'll tell you what, I hope you're over at the SVT forums preaching just like you do here, because they need more help than anyone in regards to respect and objectivity.

    I mean, there are WRX guys on those boards trying to set 'em straight just like you do here...but that's right, they get called ricers and get told to just shut up. But you get treated with respect. Hm...once again, double standards.

    Whatever...Its all bull****, that's the only thing I've gleaned from these message boards over the years. Everyone fronts, but when it comes time to race, its excuses. That's the culture of a psuedo sport where it ain't about skills and its more about money and talk.

    You don't hear this **** when it comes down to real competitions, do you? Lol.

    Edit: I just realized that the tone of this post could be interpreted as harsh towards '03 Cobra. That was unintended and I fully apologize if that's how its viewed. I just get frusterated over at those SVT forums sometimes...and I guess I took it out on the wrong entity. My sincerest apologies '03 Cobra.
    Last edited by smokey; 05-17-2004 at 02:20 PM.
    2005 NBP Accord EX-V6 6MT
    AEM CAI, HFP aerokit, Comptech SS
    17" Enkei RS7s on YokoES100 tires

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