Viper hunting? - Page 3
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 69

This is a discussion on Viper hunting? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally posted by Ponm I like cobras but refuse to believe a modded cobra could hang with a 600 or ...

  1. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    306
    Originally posted by Ponm
    I like cobras but refuse to believe a modded cobra could hang with a 600 or 750cc bike. If you have beaten such bikes(which a 600cc might be possible if you have a good deal of money in your car), but running a 12 sec 1/4 is not even going to get you close to todays 600s. New 600s are running low to mid 10s at over a 130, pretty much comparable to 750s of a few years ago. I do like cobras though. Ok, I'm off my soap box now.
    Well lets look at your theory. First off, most bikes I see at the track run high 10's to low 11's. The ones running low 10's and high 9's are the fastest bikes on the street. Big CC engines.

    I am claiming to pull 600cc and 750cc bikes on a roll from 40/50 MPH up. There are MANY claims of this by Cobras.

    600cc bike:
    0-60 in 2.0 seconds


    Cobra:
    Stock 4.6 0-60 and about 3.9 in decently modded form.

    Thats about a 2 second difference. So if your bike can do a 10 FLAT, ny Cobra did a 12 FLAT at 118 on STOCK tires. You take the LAUNCH out of the equation WHERE THE BIKES SHINE AND THE COBRA LOOSES ALL ITS TIME then it appears the Cobra should edge one out on a roll.

    You see, a bike gets MOST of its time on the 0-60. After that you are not accelerating at the same rate. If you are 2 seconds faster 0-60 and 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 AND you take away the 0-60 part, they should be close.

    If you think about it, most of these bikes are really 10.5-11.5 seconds bikes. My Cobra COULD produce a LOW 11 second run. Why a 12 flat?

    1. Stock rubber.
    2. Long shift points, crappy driver.


    So if you took my same Cobra and made the car STICK to the ground at launch AND you had someone who could drive the thing better you could EASILY shave off another 1/2 to 3/4 of a second or more.

    So taking the launch out of the equation leaves crappy shifts. Well on a roll from 60 MPH I think I probably had it in 3rd. A 3rd to 4th shift is almost instant.

    So you see, it could be more like a 11 second bike against a 11 second car. ONLY the 0-60 was taken out of the equation where the BIKE makes MOST of its ground.

    Hey I have MANY "in car" video's showing how fast my Cobra went from a 60 MPH roll to 120+. I timed it and if I remeber correctly the Cobra went form 60 MPH t0 90 MPH in about 1 second. and to 120 in about 2.5 or so.... The car was down right NASTY fast....

    I can email the files if someone needs to see them. I did have them posted on here at one point. I will see if I can find them....

    MOdded 03 Cobra's beat 600cc and 750cc bikes ALL THE TIME from a roll.
    03 EB Expedition
    --------------------
    SOLD!!!
    03 Cobra
    1/4 - 12.05
    MPH - 118.06
    465 RWHP
    485 RWTQ

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    306
    Here was the thread:

    2003 Cobra VIDEO: 20 -110 roll (violent cockpit view)


    The videos are gone from that web site. I think I still have them on my home computer. I dont want to forget that beast....

    VIOLENT was the best word to describe how that car went from a roll.


    03 EB Expedition
    --------------------
    SOLD!!!
    03 Cobra
    1/4 - 12.05
    MPH - 118.06
    465 RWHP
    485 RWTQ

  4. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    306
    This also brings something to mind. These larger V8/V10 high HP and high TQ engines (e.g. Cobra and Viper) are able to move those cars at speeds VERY well. The STi will NOT shine in the that department. Not enough displacement. This is why I say it would take QUITE a bit to take a SRT10 Viper. or like...
    03 EB Expedition
    --------------------
    SOLD!!!
    03 Cobra
    1/4 - 12.05
    MPH - 118.06
    465 RWHP
    485 RWTQ

  5. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    McLean, VA
    Posts
    570
    Correct me if I am wrong, but a turbo forces air in to the conbustion chamber creating more preasure and a bigger conbustion for greater horspower gains. Seems to me that the turbo is an efficient way of makiking up for the lack of cubic inches. At the end of the day, itís all about forcing air into the conbustion chamber. Turbo cars and supercharged cars will always have the advantage. Hell look at ALL8UP 2.5 liter conversion. On pump gas and 23 PSI he makes over 400 WHP. Do the math, and you will see that his car is more efficient than the 10 liter viper. Look at formula 1 race cars engines. Small displacement, but make incredible power.
    Last edited by Drod; 05-19-2004 at 07:40 AM.

  6. #35
    Registered User flyingace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    172
    Yep. Renault was using a 1.5 litre engine to get 1000+ hp in F1, before it was outlawed.


    Damn.. I cant believe that you STI dudes are actually talking about taking on a Viper... Too bad, I just have a lowly wrx


    Originally posted by Drod
    Correct me if I am wrong, but a turbo forces air in to the conbustion chamber creating more preasure and a bigger conbustion for greater horspower gains. Seems to me that the turbo is an efficient way of makiking up for the lack of cubic inches. At the end of the day, itís all about forcing air into the conbustion chamber. Turbo cars and supercharged cars will always have the advantage. Hell look at ALL8UP 2.5 liter conversion. On pump gas and 23 PSI he makes over 400 WHP. Do the math, and you will see that his car is more efficient than the 10 liter viper. Look at formula 1 race cars engines. Small displacement, but make incredible power.
    Platinum WRX Wagon Cobb Stage2
    TXS stealth back/UP with custom Magnaflow muffler
    whiteline adj rear sb, whiteline Antilift kit, whiteline rear strut brace, front strut brace, MRT lightened pulley
    No more AEM Cai ! , 3/16 mod, Grounding mod, Kartboy SS and bushing, Autometer 3 gauge pack and A-pillar

  7. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    766
    Originally posted by 03Cobra
    I still think even with your 470 WHP STi against a 520 WHP Viper, you would struggle and still possibly loose.

    Why?

    Because the power to weight will be close BUT the TQ will not. You might have 470 WHP but you are probably in the neighborhood of 320 WTQ. The VIper is more like 550+ in TQ. That will propell that beast WAY faster. Certainly you will give one a nice run in the first 1/8, but it will progressively get worse the faster you go and the longer you stay in it....

    Besides how many times will you have some seriously MAXED out STi against a SRT10 Viper? Not many... Even if the odds turn out such that they meet on the street, who's gonna road race a SRT10 Viper?

    I would personally be DAMN happy to edge out C5 Vettes. And maybe catch a crappy driver in a Z06. Thats PLENTY to brag about...
    I don't understand your explanation here in regards to the superior torque advantage of the Viper. The only time that torque advantage is going to be relevant is in first gear, i.e. the launch. AWD should make up for that.

    Once you cross 5252, hp is always higher, right? So after first gear, that STI is really never going to be in a position where torque is relevant...its all about horsepower and moving that weight.

    I'm not saying an STI would run with a Viper...but this is why I can run with an E36 M3 for example. I make about 80 lbs of torque less..which gives that car the punch on me. However, once I cross over and hit my 1-2 shift, I stay above 5252 - so its all about horsepower to weight. And I win in that category.

    I don't know, I might be talking out of my ass, but it seems like the STI's superior launching ability will make up for the torque advantage that the Viper has. And this is assuming we are talking about the 470hp STI that you referred to, not a stock STI.
    2005 NBP Accord EX-V6 6MT
    AEM CAI, HFP aerokit, Comptech SS
    17" Enkei RS7s on YokoES100 tires

  8. #37
    Registered User BassMan097's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Jersey
    Posts
    639
    I just think its hilarious how these domestic v8-v10 and supra guys pride themselves on highway pulls. Sure I do it all the time for fun, but I know I'm at a disadvantage so I dont take it too seriously. These guys take it to another level though, betting money on it and, get this, actually thinking that their cars are good because they can accelerate. Those domestics are $hit around a road course. A fwd honda can take a viper or cobra (not a vette though) around watkins glen if driven properly. Sure going fast in a straight line is fun, but it's not real driving. That's why the Japanese are laughing at us and they wont let us have their prized cars (GT-R, NSX-R, ITR). They know American's will do anything they can to force feed them to go fast in a straight line at all costs, and ruin what they were intended for. Hell, even the Evo VIII we have is a $hit version of the J-spec model. I also find it funny how Europe and Japan have had the sti model for years and when they finally released it in the US they gave it a 2.5 L (the Jap sti still has a 2.0) and wide seats so the Americans can fit our fat a$$es in and enjoy the extra displacement.
    2004 R32: 220 whp

    For Sale: 2003 wrx
    376 whp @ 22 psi, 93 octane

    Pics:
    http://www.cardomain.com/id/badassrex

  9. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hickory, NC
    Posts
    960
    Originally posted by 03Cobra
    Well lets look at your theory. First off, most bikes I see at the track run high 10's to low 11's. The ones running low 10's and high 9's are the fastest bikes on the street. Big CC engines.

    I am claiming to pull 600cc and 750cc bikes on a roll from 40/50 MPH up. There are MANY claims of this by Cobras.

    600cc bike:
    0-60 in 2.0 seconds


    Cobra:
    Stock 4.6 0-60 and about 3.9 in decently modded form.

    Thats about a 2 second difference. So if your bike can do a 10 FLAT, ny Cobra did a 12 FLAT at 118 on STOCK tires. You take the LAUNCH out of the equation WHERE THE BIKES SHINE AND THE COBRA LOOSES ALL ITS TIME then it appears the Cobra should edge one out on a roll.

    You see, a bike gets MOST of its time on the 0-60. After that you are not accelerating at the same rate. If you are 2 seconds faster 0-60 and 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 AND you take away the 0-60 part, they should be close.

    If you think about it, most of these bikes are really 10.5-11.5 seconds bikes. My Cobra COULD produce a LOW 11 second run. Why a 12 flat?

    1. Stock rubber.
    2. Long shift points, crappy driver.


    So if you took my same Cobra and made the car STICK to the ground at launch AND you had someone who could drive the thing better you could EASILY shave off another 1/2 to 3/4 of a second or more.

    So taking the launch out of the equation leaves crappy shifts. Well on a roll from 60 MPH I think I probably had it in 3rd. A 3rd to 4th shift is almost instant.

    So you see, it could be more like a 11 second bike against a 11 second car. ONLY the 0-60 was taken out of the equation where the BIKE makes MOST of its ground.

    Hey I have MANY "in car" video's showing how fast my Cobra went from a 60 MPH roll to 120+. I timed it and if I remeber correctly the Cobra went form 60 MPH t0 90 MPH in about 1 second. and to 120 in about 2.5 or so.... The car was down right NASTY fast....

    I can email the files if someone needs to see them. I did have them posted on here at one point. I will see if I can find them....

    MOdded 03 Cobra's beat 600cc and 750cc bikes ALL THE TIME from a roll.
    A gsxr 1000cc bike generally runs 9's. While a cbr600 will run a mid to low 10. They actually shine on top-end because they run about a high 6 or low 7 in an 1/8th. Most bike do 0-60 in sub sec times.
    Mods

    Armed with a rotated Precision 6265 turbo at 35psi and a built 2.5 liter.

  10. #39
    Registered User happasaiyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Rolling Meadows, IL
    Posts
    860
    i have a modded (but not finished) STi and have driven a GTS. (my uncle has a '92 RT/10 with 800 miles and a '97 GTS with 400 miles...and i put on 100 of those 400 miles ).

    lets put it this way: from a roll in 2nd gear in the GTS, my brother could NOT touch the radio....and yes, he was really trying. can a WRX or STi beat a viper? of course. will anything short of a 400whp WRX/STi beat a viper from a roll? hell no. from a stop? you better be a good driver, and the track better end really soon.

    once my car is done, im tempted to ask my uncle to race me to
    see how close it would be. well see though .

    keep in mind, this is in regards to gen1 or gen2 vipers like which is what was originally asked about. gen3s will require so much more for our cars to keep up. like 03cobra said- they are beasts.

    oh and for what its worth, 03cobra is very right. the viper has the torque card. and for those that say well hp is what wins the race because after 5252, yadda yadda...just remember that it makes its peak power at 5200. do some calculations on that
    '04 PSM STi - modded (sr50+the works)
    '05 JGM RSX Type-S - stock

  11. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    McLean, VA
    Posts
    570
    A fwd honda can take a viper or cobra (not a vette though) around watkins glen if driven properly.
    Give me an example of a fwd that can take a Viper in a road course. It must be a 500 whp one. Viper are great handling cars and can run with the best at the tracks. Many European racing teams use them and are quite successful with them against the Skyline, NSX and other high end JDM cars. They have good handling and gobs or torque to get the out of the corners fast. I have this month Automobile Magazine, and the Viper ran some impressive track times against some impressive competition

  12. #41
    Registered User BassMan097's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Jersey
    Posts
    639
    Top Fuel CTR and ITR (for fwd), Mines GT-R, HKS Evo (awd), etc. Yes these are shop cars, but there are lots of customers with the full performance setups these cars have, save the 10's of thousands of dollars for carbon fiber ish. It's funny how I really only see vipers out when it's really cold. Everyone I've ever spoken to with one has told me to not get one, that they are fun but the cockpit gets like 100 degrees and the motor likes to overheat. The DLM viper (930 hp) got beat by a 770 hp turbo trans am from a roll, and thats what they pride themselves on. For a road course I'd rather have a heavily modded z06. But if I had the money to piss away I'd def get a viper as a toy anyway. They're dead sexy
    2004 R32: 220 whp

    For Sale: 2003 wrx
    376 whp @ 22 psi, 93 octane

    Pics:
    http://www.cardomain.com/id/badassrex

  13. #42
    Registered User happasaiyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Rolling Meadows, IL
    Posts
    860
    Originally posted by BassMan097
    they are fun but the cockpit gets like 100 degrees
    thats a big CHECK. haha. its like an oven in there once the car is up to temp.
    '04 PSM STi - modded (sr50+the works)
    '05 JGM RSX Type-S - stock

  14. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    McLean, VA
    Posts
    570
    I was doing some reaserch on Vipers and came accros several 1 st gen RT -10's running mid 12's and 2nd gen GTS runing high 11's to low 12's stock. I also saw a 3rd gen run a 11.7 @ 123 MPH. Then you get into the DLP Vipers and Henessy that dip well in to the 10's and 9's. Saw some super charged Vipers with 1000 HP.

  15. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    306
    Originally posted by smokey
    I don't understand your explanation here in regards to the superior torque advantage of the Viper. The only time that torque advantage is going to be relevant is in first gear, i.e. the launch. AWD should make up for that.

    Once you cross 5252, hp is always higher, right? So after first gear, that STI is really never going to be in a position where torque is relevant...its all about horsepower and moving that weight.

    I'm not saying an STI would run with a Viper...but this is why I can run with an E36 M3 for example. I make about 80 lbs of torque less..which gives that car the punch on me. However, once I cross over and hit my 1-2 shift, I stay above 5252 - so its all about horsepower to weight. And I win in that category.

    I don't know, I might be talking out of my ass, but it seems like the STI's superior launching ability will make up for the torque advantage that the Viper has. And this is assuming we are talking about the 470hp STI that you referred to, not a stock STI.
    CAn you PLEASE explain your "SUPERIOR LAUNCHING ABILITY"? PLEASE!

    Perhaps in the hands of an amatuer or someone driving the Viper for the first 10 times.... The ONLY thing the STi has over an RT10 is the ability to learn to launch it faster. It will take a bit more time to learn to handle the monster TQ of the V10. That said, I will guarantee you that even a CRAPPY driver can pull a sub 5 second 0-60 (being that stock is 3.9). That might be 4/10ths slower than the STI's PERFECT lanch. So even if you get a perfect launch on a MODDED STi its still QUITE possible that the Viper will kill you in a run....

    People... Unless you've been in a 500+ HP Viper and driven one, you are CLUELESS.... Thats the ONLY car I've been in that I honestly think would KILL my Cobra....

    Hey an STi can be made to go as fast as you like. So can the Viper BTW.

    Again, you really can not compare the 2 cars. The ONLY race an STI (modded or not) will take a 03 SRT10 Viper is a dirt/snow track....

    -----------------------------------

    As for a lesson on TORQUE... What exactly do you think you need EVERY TIME YOU SHIFT?

    You think TORQUE only works off-the-line? Wrong! Every time you shift and bring the RPMs down, you bring yourself back into peak TQ. What does this do? It helps you "muscle" the weight into the higher RPMs. The higher the TQ the faster you will need to shift and the faster the RPMs will climb.

    The TQ helps you under the load. Yea it helps you get something moving, but its also helps with the acceleration rate.

    -------------------------------------

    Hey the STi is a bloody fantastic car... But a SRT10 Viper?

    Agian, bring ALL your mods and some NOS... AND PRAY the Viper does NOT have basic bolt-ons... Then you can FORGET IT!

    Crist... The STi is SUPER fast, but your really not in the exotic car category....
    Last edited by 03Cobra; 05-19-2004 at 03:46 PM.
    03 EB Expedition
    --------------------
    SOLD!!!
    03 Cobra
    1/4 - 12.05
    MPH - 118.06
    465 RWHP
    485 RWTQ

  16. #45
    Registered User BassMan097's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Jersey
    Posts
    639
    Yes, the viper is a beast, but it's not an exotic, not by a long shot. It's an American muscle car. And your explanation of torque was right on. I took a ride in my buddies 550 hp/520 lb-ft LS1 and every time he shifted it felt like he was launching...that being said, it's hard to keep the wheelspin down all the way through 3rd gear.

    P.S. I've been really getting seduced by muscle cars recently. What did you do to the cobra to get it 465/485. I'm thinking of either a 02-03 cobra or C5. I'm not too familiar with the Cobra's upgrading stages. I know its pretty popular to do pullies, intake, exhaust, and a chip, +/- some nitrous. What does that get you whp wise? If I got the c5 I'd have to either boost it or do a full bolt-on with nitrous.
    Last edited by BassMan097; 05-19-2004 at 07:09 PM.
    2004 R32: 220 whp

    For Sale: 2003 wrx
    376 whp @ 22 psi, 93 octane

    Pics:
    http://www.cardomain.com/id/badassrex

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. We strongly suggest that you stay away from using aol, yahoo, msn, and hotmail accounts. Sometimes the mail server blocks the emails from our server. As a result you will not receive any notifications including the confirmation email.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •