Celica GT-S VS 1994 GT mustang - Page 4
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This is a discussion on Celica GT-S VS 1994 GT mustang within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; You know, when I first signed up on ClubWRX, I thought to myself: I can hardly wait to read about ...

  1. #46
    Registered User Dan00Hawk's Avatar
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    You know, when I first signed up on ClubWRX, I thought to myself: I can hardly wait to read about a Hayabusa owner's thoughts about a twin turbo NSX in a thread about 94 Mustangs and Celica GTS's on a WRX board.

    Never would I have imagined that this day would ever come to be! Thank you Mr. Cyndicate for making my modest dreams come true!!!


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  3. #47
    Moderator MidKnight's Avatar
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    Cyndicate, not only are you WRONG, but I know that the JGTC GT500 Class Honda NSX is a a twin-turbo V6.

    Also, Honda built a concept NSX with a twin Turbo system in the mid '90's that never went in production due to the price.

    Also, see the following:

    http://www.cartech.net/nsxturbo.htm
    http://www.turbo-kits.com/nsx_turbo_kits.html
    http://www.carsearch.com/767822.htm
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  4. #48
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    The turbo NSX's...purely a photoshop deal...if you cant see that....your a lo3er
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  5. #49
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    The way the valves and other things are in the engine, it robs the turbo of boost presure. There are tons of reasons it doesnt work WELL. In all honesty, how many REAL Vtec cars have you seen with over 350 hp? I have seen cars that just have a civic body on them, but they really are not a civic anymore, they have new NON honda engines in them, and have been gutted. The reason behind this is with the lift and timing system on the valves, air flow and other things are NOT consistant(sp I am sick right now) It changes plenty of things while reving. Turbos HAVE to spool with a type of rythem, the air flow has to stay on, and not cut off. In a vtec car, it gets cut off, and turns back on at strange times.
    A supercharger has a belt, and while they dont normally make as much HP as a turbo, they are soley dependant on the rpm/belt. This makes them consistant. I cant TELL you how many vtec engines we have had to take out, and replace, because people wanted a turbo installed. You will get WAY more power out of a non vtec Turbo Integra, then you will out of a Turbo GSR Integra. Strange isnt it?

    I like turbos the most, and an NSX with a turbo system would be one of my dream cars. You could put a Lotus mid engine in one, maybe. but again, you would have to match up the tranny, and EVERYTHING else. One of my best friends in florida own a Lotus Esprite Turbo. Insane car. But it is not as simple as an engine swap, you have to have a tranny swap and EVERTHING else. Hell if he is a rich doctor, and did it, more power to him, I sure as hell would like to see it.

  6. #50
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    Originally posted by The Cyndicate
    The way the valves and other things are in the engine, it robs the turbo of boost presure. There are tons of reasons it doesnt work WELL. In all honesty, how many REAL Vtec cars have you seen with over 350 hp? I have seen cars that just have a civic body on them, but they really are not a civic anymore, they have new NON honda engines in them, and have been gutted. The reason behind this is with the lift and timing system on the valves, air flow and other things are NOT consistant(sp I am sick right now) It changes plenty of things while reving. Turbos HAVE to spool with a type of rythem, the air flow has to stay on, and not cut off. In a vtec car, it gets cut off, and turns back on at strange times.
    A supercharger has a belt, and while they dont normally make as much HP as a turbo, they are soley dependant on the rpm/belt. This makes them consistant. I cant TELL you how many vtec engines we have had to take out, and replace, because people wanted a turbo installed. You will get WAY more power out of a non vtec Turbo Integra, then you will out of a Turbo GSR Integra. Strange isnt it?

    I like turbos the most, and an NSX with a turbo system would be one of my dream cars. You could put a Lotus mid engine in one, maybe. but again, you would have to match up the tranny, and EVERYTHING else. One of my best friends in florida own a Lotus Esprite Turbo. Insane car. But it is not as simple as an engine swap, you have to have a tranny swap and EVERTHING else. Hell if he is a rich doctor, and did it, more power to him, I sure as hell would like to see it.
    Alot of people have non-vtec heads on their honda motors. Many turbo cars have a variable valve timing system almost identical to the NSX's vtec. One example is the STi. I have a few friends that have vtec heads on their b series motors and have been running strong with their turbos for awhile now.

    Have you heard of a frankenstein?
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  7. #51
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    Heads dont make Vtec. The lift and valve system does. The entire thing matters. Some DO have turbos, but they suck for lack of a better word. Non make over 350 hp. However I can take a non vtec integra and shove 500 hp in it. You just cant get anything useable out of the vtecs. Thats the way it is.

  8. #52
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    Cyndicate,
    It sounds like you have listened to too many of the wrong people to base knowledge from... I have seen many turbod NSX's, theres one at the middle of the page. A turbo can spool off of exhaust gases whether they are coming from a VTEC head and valvetrain or a non-VTEC head and valvetrain. Are you saying that you wont be able to spool a turbo that is on a VTEC car as well as a non- VTEC car?? If so, explain why. If you think that is true go tell that to all of the guys that are making pretty sick power on the Cybernation RSX kits.

    You need to look at these ok....


    I believe that is a Turbod NSX.... HMMMM



    I think that is a RSX making around 450 whp.... thats a bit more than the 350 you speak of. But, yes it has cams. Thats the key... Vtec has nothing do with it if you can have a cam profile that would benefit the super high flow levels that are required by a bunch of boost and therefor horsepower.

    Richard
    Car for sale for 13,500 with 60k on the car an 18k on the motor/tranny(Silver Sedan with 5spd)

  9. #53
    Registered User eightballrj's Avatar
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    Oh yeah... one more on stock cams... haha




    And no guys I am not a Honda geek... I just am familiar with many cars and wanted to show this guy the light, haha.

    Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

    Richard
    Car for sale for 13,500 with 60k on the car an 18k on the motor/tranny(Silver Sedan with 5spd)

  10. #54
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    Originally posted by The Cyndicate
    Heads dont make Vtec. The lift and valve system does. The entire thing matters. Some DO have turbos, but they suck for lack of a better word. Non make over 350 hp. However I can take a non vtec integra and shove 500 hp in it. You just cant get anything useable out of the vtecs. Thats the way it is.
    We've done it many times. You can put a non-vtec head to eliminate vtec. My friend with his b18 type-r crx is running 11's with a turbonetics t-60-1 turbine. I believe that doesn't suck.

    You still haven't explained why you can't turbo a vtec. "Cuz the valves aren't right" isn't an answer. The man above has already proved you wrong. The STi has a form of vtec, as does the toyotas, bimmer's, etc. So many companie's have a version identical to honda's and still make power.

    What the hell is a lift system?? Never heard of that.
    Last edited by ilivas; 04-19-2004 at 09:49 PM.
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  11. #55
    Registered User Rella's Avatar
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    I've owned a 95 Stang GT, which is the EXACT same as the 94, they are geared really closly so the Stang will pull on the celica through 3rd, after that I have NO idea what a celica can do what so ever.

    JMO, but I think the celica's suck, I've driven a 6 speed 03 GTS and it was nothing compared to my 5speed 95 GT, The celica is NA and has NO torque, granted the stang is also NA but has a shiat load of torque and pulls pretty hard, I just don't see the celica having a chance, unless its an Alltrack GTS.

    Sorry if this info is too late, I'm used to the mountian states forum!
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  12. #56
    Registered User DTR rex's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rella
    I've owned a 95 Stang GT, which is the EXACT same as the 94, they are geared really closly so the Stang will pull on the celica through 3rd, after that I have NO idea what a celica can do what so ever.

    JMO, but I think the celica's suck, I've driven a 6 speed 03 GTS and it was nothing compared to my 5speed 95 GT, The celica is NA and has NO torque, granted the stang is also NA but has a shiat load of torque and pulls pretty hard, I just don't see the celica having a chance, unless its an Alltrack GTS.

    Sorry if this info is too late, I'm used to the mountian states forum!
    the stang will "feel faster" due to torque... but because of the celicas top and end light weight its actually very close if not faster than that stang in question. (stock for stock ofcourse)
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  13. #57
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    So thats a TWIN TURBOED NSX, making over 600 hp huh? You cut your own throat with that "MAG" artical.

    The CRX IS the best honda platform EVER made. Adding a head TO a nonvtec engine does NOT give you vtec. However going the other way around like you talk about, could disable it enough to make is boost. I have seen an 1100 hp CRX, but it had a non-honda engine.

    Have you seen the 1600 hp ford focus? Thats a fun car.

    You call 300-350 hp sick? heh.

    You read mags, I build these things. You have to understand how Turbos spool, and build boost. Read your mag, and dyno sheet a lil bit closer, you will see that your engine WAS rebuilt, with vtec removed .

    Enjoy.
    Last edited by The Cyndicate; 04-22-2004 at 07:16 AM.

  14. #58
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    I have a rough understanding of how the almighty vtec motor employs it's power. So sit and gather with me for a second. Ok say you have a 2.0 v-tec in the great crx. All the vtec really does is change the lobe and duration on the came at X rpm correct? So going down the road your WOT till 6 grand. Then vtec kicks in, for a mili second you would lose your constant exhaust pressure that the turbo is spooling off of right? You probaly wont even feel it. But once your in "vtec" you are pushing the turbo to a higher limit then before at wot. That is what I think the problem might be. And that problem is simply finding a turbo that is at home pushing X psi at X rpm with X exhaust pressure to pushing the same turbo at a higher rpm with a much larger exhaust pressure. As long as you could find a turbo that's at home doing double duty, or find a buyer that is willing to have a laggy turbo (or top end dead turbo) you should be fine right? I've driven a 1.6 T crx (hf) and it was a blast. I hate to say the same guy that owns that car also had a 2.0 crx vtec with a t-25. I still dont know "why" it "wouldnt" work. I can just come up with why it wouldnt be the best design.
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  15. #59
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    Originally posted by The Cyndicate
    So thats a TWIN TURBOED NSX, making over 600 hp huh? You cut your own throat with that "MAG" artical.

    The CRX IS the best honda platform EVER made. Adding a head TO a nonvtec engine does NOT give you vtec. However going the other way around like you talk about, could disable it enough to make is boost. I have seen an 1100 hp CRX, but it had a non-honda engine.

    Have you seen the 1600 hp ford focus? Thats a fun car.

    You call 300-350 hp sick? heh.

    You read mags, I build these things. You have to understand how Turbos spool, and build boost. Read your mag, and dyno sheet a lil bit closer, you will see that your engine WAS rebuilt, with vtec removed .

    Enjoy.
    You don't build cars, if you did you could probably give me a better explanation then "the valves don't work right". We all understand how turbo's spool and build boost. This is a turbo forum. You always just throw out random statements without provding facts or explaining anything to back them up. I doubt you even have a license.

    My friend's civic si b16 works very well with a turbo and vtec. He bought the greddy td05-18g kit.
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  16. #60
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    Wrong again you are my friend.... That Stage III RSX in the article... like I stated had cams I think. But, the actual dyno chart that I showed was a Stage II RSX WITH VTEC ENABLED! . Any other arguements your might like to pose?? I also want you to tell me exactly HOW a twin turbo NSX would work any different than a single turbo besides size of engine bay restraints. I want to know exact details... because X boost from one turbo at X flow is the same at X boost and X flow from turbo turbos considering the efficiency is the same. Dont sit there and tell me that I dont build things and I only read mags... Look at my signature. That tip you off to anything?? Maybe you ought to read some more magazines and do some more research because you are making yourself look stupid. I just disproved most of your arguement about vtec being BAD with turbos. Again, I say that VTEC with the proper cam profiles will give you even better results than actually a single profiled turbo cam. You could have the off VTEC profile set for big lift for more torque and the on VTEC profile for more duration for more uptop gains.....Thats is all...

    Richard
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