Forester XT vs. BMW M3 - Page 3
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This is a discussion on Forester XT vs. BMW M3 within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; oops...sorry, but I just had to quote this for jt2 "It was decided the larger 2.5-liter engine from the Forester ...

  1. #31
    Registered User FrankW's Avatar
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    oops...sorry, but I just had to quote this for jt2

    "It was decided the larger 2.5-liter engine from the Forester would get a turbo of its own, and the Forester 2.5XT was born.

    But this is not the 300-hp, 300-pound-feet engine from the '04 WRX STi. That engine, with its big IHI turbocharger, wasn't what the doctor ordered for a family SUV. Nor was the 227-hp engine from the standard WRX.

    What we have here is a custom-made 210-hp, 235-pound-feet DOHC 2.5-liter boxer four with variable intake-valve timing through 35 degrees of crankshaft rotation and its own smaller Mitsubishi Heavy Industries intercooled turbo, a unit that produces faster throttle response and spool-up than the IHI unit. Boost maxes out at 11.6 psi versus 14.5 psi for the STi engine, and that figure of 235 pound-feet at 3600 rpm is a whopping 42 percent more than the plain-vanilla engine generates."

    this is from Car and Driver btw.

    not here to flame the any Subaru, but here to learn. Hope this topic takes a rest.
    Nothing but good ol' replicas...on my good ol' poser c240
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  3. #32
    jt2
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    Originally posted by FrankW
    oops...sorry, but I just had to quote this for jt2

    "It was decided the larger 2.5-liter engine from the Forester would get a turbo of its own, and the Forester 2.5XT was born.

    <yadda, yadda>

    this is from Car and Driver btw.

    Though I have a lot of respect for C&D (I've been a subscriber since the early 80's), it wouldn't be the first time they're not 100% on the mark.

    The simple fact is that the replacement part numbers have been looked up for both the FXT and STi motors and they are the SAME. This is NOT true for any other EJ25 based motor.

    The STi came out first, with an unquestionably unique motor, with many unique changes from any other EJ25. The FXT came later with a smaller turbo and intercooler, and ECU Tune, and nothing else. Knowing this and calling it anything but a detuned STi motor is disingenuous, and bordering on silly.

    Here's a quote on a thread last year on NASIOC from a Mod who is also the Parts Manager of a Subaru dealer:

    I crossed referenced a bunch of part #'s from the STi to the Forester....OK..Hang on to you hats...

    The FORESTER motor is IDENTICAL to the STi....even the cams are the same....

    The only difference is the 5 spd VS 6 spd and the ECU's are different...That it....besides the obvious DCCD, Brakes and such..

    I Verified this twice....that is just toooooo cool...

    Oh yeah...the turbo's are different....and the intercoolers too...


    Who are you going to believe, a magazine article written almost entirely from marketing fluff, or the acutaly part number cross-reference??

    Why is this so hard for you to accept?
    JT

    '03 WRX, Vishnu Stage 2
    '04 Forester XT
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  4. #33
    Registered User FrankW's Avatar
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    there's nothing special about parts sharing. I'll be surprise that 50% or more of the STi 2.5 turbo flat four isn't the same as the 2.5 NA flat four or the Forester's 2.5 turbo four.

    take at as what you wish since it's your car. I just don't look at fitting DIFFERENT turbo from different company as "de-tuning". Changing the compression ratio, lowering the boost pressure, or remapping the ECU by using all the same EXACT parts, now that's "de-tuning". i.e. VW/Audi's 1.8T inline-four, MB's 1.8 s/c inline-four, etc.
    Nothing but good ol' replicas...on my good ol' poser c240
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  5. #34
    Registered User ihaveadent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FrankW
    there's nothing special about parts sharing. I'll be surprise that 50% or more of the STi 2.5 turbo flat four isn't the same as the 2.5 NA flat four or the Forester's 2.5 turbo four.

    take at as what you wish since it's your car. I just don't look at fitting DIFFERENT turbo from different company as "de-tuning". Changing the compression ratio, lowering the boost pressure, or remapping the ECU by using all the same EXACT parts, now that's "de-tuning". i.e. VW/Audi's 1.8T inline-four, MB's 1.8 s/c inline-four, etc.
    Have you ever argued with a STOP sign?
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  6. #35
    Registered User crazycam31's Avatar
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    On a more positive note.... check this baby out......
    Forester Caution
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  7. #36
    jt2
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    Originally posted by FrankW


    I do not have the integrity to admit that I am wrong, even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. I will keep arguing until you give up in frustration.
    Ok, you win...

    I guess 100% parts match does not mean it is the same engine. What was I thinking?
    JT

    '03 WRX, Vishnu Stage 2
    '04 Forester XT
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  8. #37
    Registered User FrankW's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ihaveadent
    Have you ever argued with a STOP sign?
    have you ever posted anything that's useful in this thread?
    Nothing but good ol' replicas...on my good ol' poser c240
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  9. #38
    Registered User FrankW's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jt2
    Ok, you win...

    I guess 100% parts match does not mean it is the same engine. What was I thinking?
    yeah...real mature quoting something that doesn't exist...

    fine by me if you want me to go your way. if you really want to justify your XT over the STi. where exactly is the 100% parts match come from anyway?? The intercooled turbo on the 2.5 STi is made by IHI the same company that make the supercharger on the supercharged AMGs. The turbo on the XT is from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.
    Nothing but good ol' replicas...on my good ol' poser c240
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  10. #39
    Registered User ihaveadent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FrankW
    have you ever posted anything that's useful in this thread?
    And your illogical arguments against proven points are useful? Is there not a Crapcedes-Benz board that you can post on somewhere?
    1967 Camaro
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  11. #40
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    Opps I accidentally posted into a war. I'm taking back what I said for the sake of neutrality.

    Para
    Last edited by paragonwrx; 02-10-2004 at 06:01 PM.
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  12. #41
    Registered User FrankW's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ihaveadent
    And your illogical arguments against proven points are useful? Is there not a Crapcedes-Benz board that you can post on somewhere?
    wait!!...what's this section of the board called?? lol it's "WRX vs. the World" dummie

    and yes, I have a secret cult of which I joined upon choosing Crapcedes-Benz.
    Last edited by FrankW; 02-10-2004 at 06:09 PM.
    Nothing but good ol' replicas...on my good ol' poser c240
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  13. #42
    Registered User FrankW's Avatar
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    Originally posted by paragonwrx
    Opps I accidentally posted into a war. I'm taking back what I said for the sake of neutrality.

    Para
    lol
    Nothing but good ol' replicas...on my good ol' poser c240
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  14. #43
    jt2
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    Originally posted by FrankW
    yeah...real mature quoting something that doesn't exist...
    Well, since your thought process is obviously quite muddled, I was just helping you out by summarizing.


    fine by me if you want me to go your way. if you really want to justify your XT over the STi.
    Nice straw man. Feel better?


    where exactly is the 100% parts match come from anyway??
    Read the thread – the motor is a 100% parts match, according to the parts manager of a dealer, who is also an enthusiast, and a mod on another site. He researched it pretty thoroughly.

    Not the turbo…
    Not the intercooler…
    Not the radiator cap…
    The motor. That which takes up the space between the oil pan and valve covers[1]. You know, that big lump of metal that takes up most of the space under the hood?

    Now, it may seem that I’m trying to compare the STi to the FXT. I’m not, as it would be absurd. I present this only to support the position that the FXT has a “detuned” version of the STi motor, not the converse, as you suggested.

    You based your assertions on bad information – it happens. But it was pretty clearly shown that your source was wrong, yet you seem to be completely unable to admit that you could be wrong. Instead you argue on. Amazing. I bet you’re a lot of fun a parties. You know, the one that gets thrown in the pool all the time.

    Psst. Frank – They’re not laughing WITH you.

    [1] yes, I know this example doesn’t work well with a boxer. Call it artistic license.
    JT

    '03 WRX, Vishnu Stage 2
    '04 Forester XT
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  15. #44
    Registered User Timdog1650's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jt2
    ...[1] yes, I know this example doesn’t work well with a boxer. Call it artistic license.

    I would have used "between the intake manifold and oil pan" for that example


    ~Tim
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  16. #45
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    Dude,
    My Vishnu Stage II would own your MB after the first turn. You'd be callin' a tow truck
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