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This is a discussion on Reason why Srt-4 beats wrx? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Wouldn't everyone agree that Dodge and Subaru had 2 different things in mind and 2 different markets in mind when ...

  1. #16
    Registered User GPatrick's Avatar
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    Wouldn't everyone agree that Dodge and Subaru had 2 different things in mind and 2 different markets in mind when they developed the SRT4 and WRX?

    I wouldn't say that it's apples and oranges. I'd guess that they buyers of the SRT4 are primarily looking for the power, hence primarily drag racing (although I know that that's a broad generality). Whereas, I'd guess that the WRX attracts a very similar buyer, but it also attracts (and markets towards) those who are interested in road racing and autox.

    When the Subaru came out, I think that it caught the attention and awed many across the US. When the SRT4 came out, though, I really doubt that Dodge was aiming specifically for the WRX. I think that they were trying to cow-tow to the Fast and Furious market.

    I don't think I'd buy it, personally, when there are some other, superior cars available for not much more, but I admire what Dodge was trying to do (and actually achieved in my book). It is a powerful car. It's one of very few small displacement, turbo'd cars marketed today, and I'd argue that it has backed up what it promised. I think that with the LSD and some racing slicks, it could even be a pretty potent threat on the track (at least among the regulars who I see at trackday)

    Speaking from my narrow experience, there is a guy who was autox'ing the ?1st gen SRT4 (w/o LSD) who placed 4th in either SP or SM.

    ...but to answer your question, I'd say that it's probably because of the additional displacement and probably the ECU is tuned more aggressively from the factory than the WRX is.

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  3. #17
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    Dodge actually had the srt-4 concept awhile back in 2000. So I really don't think that Dodge made the car because of the wrx. However, i'm sure it gave them more reason to go ahead with production.
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  4. #18
    Registered User 2001S4's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GPatrick
    Wouldn't everyone agree that Dodge and Subaru had 2 different things in mind and 2 different markets in mind when they developed the SRT4 and WRX?

    I wouldn't say that it's apples and oranges. I'd guess that they buyers of the SRT4 are primarily looking for the power, hence primarily drag racing (although I know that that's a broad generality). Whereas, I'd guess that the WRX attracts a very similar buyer, but it also attracts (and markets towards) those who are interested in road racing and autox.

    When the Subaru came out, I think that it caught the attention and awed many across the US. When the SRT4 came out, though, I really doubt that Dodge was aiming specifically for the WRX. I think that they were trying to cow-tow to the Fast and Furious market.

    I don't think I'd buy it, personally, when there are some other, superior cars available for not much more, but I admire what Dodge was trying to do (and actually achieved in my book). It is a powerful car. It's one of very few small displacement, turbo'd cars marketed today, and I'd argue that it has backed up what it promised. I think that with the LSD and some racing slicks, it could even be a pretty potent threat on the track (at least among the regulars who I see at trackday)

    Speaking from my narrow experience, there is a guy who was autox'ing the ?1st gen SRT4 (w/o LSD) who placed 4th in either SP or SM.

    ...but to answer your question, I'd say that it's probably because of the additional displacement and probably the ECU is tuned more aggressively from the factory than the WRX is.
    This is the same old argument that WRX owners use over and over. The SRT4 and the WRX were brought here to attract the EXACT SAME demographic. It is to appease to mainly young, "ambitious" drivers that like power, don't like huge car payments, like moddability, and just want something a little different than what the youth of years past had. Don't be fooled into thinking that Subura brought its car over here so that we can autox, or that Dodge brought the SRT4 to the market so we can drag race. The decision to sell them here was solely a financial decision. There are young people here who buy new cars. They don't spend $30,000 usually, but they do spend $25,000 and less and typically these people tend to modify their car for performance and looks. So, why wouldn't these companies use this to their advantage? They did finally. They brought out cars that already are eye catching in their own way, both attract attention. Both have gobs of power that was never before seen in a 4 door sedan under $25,000 (not in this era of course). Neither company thought "our consumer will autox or will drag race." They thought "our consumer will buy this car, we will offer upgrades, we will make lots of money. " Guess what, both were right, both have been successful and both are reaping the rewards. Guess who else is though. US. We now have all these great options when it comes to buying a new car. Young people have options they didn't have. Middle class americans who have families and bills pooring in now have a chance to get a family car in wagon form, that will still accelerate more than most people ever need. Stop comparing the cars and picking them apart. To me, they are basically brothers, created for the same purpose.
    Last edited by 2001S4; 12-21-2003 at 09:43 AM.

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    i do agree with a lot of that. car mfgr's dont really care much about the public more than outside of their wallet

    however there are probably pretty few people who are torn between buying a neon and a wrx, nothing like the STi and EVO. Yes both cars are geared toward the younger person with a decent income but most people probably dont do a lot of shopping between the neon and wrx. but yes they are built toward the same "young with some money" crowd.
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  6. #20
    Registered User pedafile's Avatar
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    As a relatively new, unevolved engine I would have to think the srt4 is not engineered nearly as well as a subaru wrx which is running on 8 generations of improvements. It's still a neon, and that reflects in the price. This is pure speculation on my part. Only time will tell. As may a consumer reports magazine in the next few years.
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  7. #21
    Registered User GPatrick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 2001S4
    [B]The SRT4 and the WRX were brought here to attract the EXACT SAME demographic...To me[/], they are basically brothers, created for the same purpose.
    I don't fault anything in your logic, but where's the harm in over-analyzing. Neither you nor I know what considerations went into Subaru or Dodge's decision to develop and market these cars.

    I would argue with your first statement that I quoted, though. I think you're a little too myopic in that there is much more that goes into R&D and advertising before a manufacturer decides to build and sell a car. They aren't in a vacuum. They've got their fingers on the pulse of what's hot because they themselves are enthusiasts, or they wouldn't be doing what they do. Read here to see what the developers Marques McCammon and John Fernandez have to say (from the Dodge point of view). On the other hand, it's pretty obvious why Subaru developed the WRX. What's curious, is why it took so long for it to be available in the US. I'm sure we all have our opinions (or could find it on the i-net), but who knows.

    All I'm saying is that they're both awesome cars, but I think different in that across the full spectrum of each's demographic, there are probably big deltas among who buys. One thing that can't be argued is that both cars certainly appeal to kids, and for reasons they both have in common.

  8. #22
    Registered User DeeezNuuuts83's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pedafile
    As a relatively new, unevolved engine I would have to think the srt4 is not engineered nearly as well as a subaru wrx which is running on 8 generations of improvements. It's still a neon, and that reflects in the price. This is pure speculation on my part. Only time will tell. As may a consumer reports magazine in the next few years.
    Although it's true that the SRT-4 doesn't have the background that the WRX has, I remember reading in a magazine (I forgot which one... Super Street, SCC, one of those) that they took apart an SRT-4 engine, and they said it was made of good materials and was built to last through abuse.

  9. #23
    Registered User GPatrick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DeeezNuuuts83
    Although it's true that the SRT-4 doesn't have the background that the WRX has, I remember reading in a magazine (I forgot which one... Super Street, SCC, one of those) that they took apart an SRT-4 engine, and they said it was made of good materials and was built to last through abuse.
    That's nice to know for future reference. Do you remember if they equated it to the 4g63?

  10. #24
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    Those SRT's Love to come after my golf.

    I am driving a 2000 4 door golf with about 280 WHP (t3/t4, front mount blah blah)

    I ran into one with a boost controller and some other junk, he kept up for a little bit and I was very suprised.

    The SRT-4 in my eyes is a pretty cool car out the box. My real complaint is the wing and the FWD

    This golf Im driving right now @ 280WHP; the traction is pretty bad and it will only get worse. Thats what brought me to the STI, I have had 4 turbo hondas, Super fast on the freeway like the SRT-4

    Ive seen atleast 6 different SRT-4's at the local drag (sacramento) and have yet to see one get out of the 14's modded or stock. The average driver in a SRT-4 wont be much of a challenge to the big dog's.
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  11. #25
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    I always thought that the srt4 has a crazy turbo set-up that makes it very close to the engine so it spools up really fast. It is expensive to upgrade it, but it is big from the start so there is no reason to unless to go lower than 12's.

    am I wrong?

  12. #26
    Registered User TurnWRX's Avatar
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    I think we will see 11's on the stock srt-4 turbo. It's just a matter of time.

  13. #27
    Registered User GPatrick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by James Bond
    I am driving a 2000 4 door golf with about 280 WHP (t3/t4, front mount blah blah)

  14. #28
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    Originally posted by GPatrick
    Can you say sleeper?



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  15. #29
    Registered User drizze99's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pedafile
    As a relatively new, unevolved engine I would have to think the srt4 is not engineered nearly as well as a subaru wrx which is running on 8 generations of improvements. It's still a neon, and that reflects in the price. This is pure speculation on my part. Only time will tell. As may a consumer reports magazine in the next few years.
    Originally posted by DeeezNuuuts83
    Although it's true that the SRT-4 doesn't have the background that the WRX has, I remember reading in a magazine (I forgot which one... Super Street, SCC, one of those) that they took apart an SRT-4 engine, and they said it was made of good materials and was built to last through abuse.
    DeeezNuuuts83 - The article that you are referring to is my sig!

    pedafile - The engine has been around a lot longer than you think. This engine has been used in the Mexican Spec Stratus for years. This is the first time that DCX used this engine on US soil.

    Back to the topic - I think Jim (silverscooby) nailed it on the head with his post. Other than the difference in IC, the stock turbo and engine displacment play a big part in it as well. I also think the gearing plays a role in it as well!
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  16. #30
    Registered User Khryz's Avatar
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    I agree with those who said the WRX helped the SRT-4 be put into production. The WRX definately inspired the STi and Evo to come to the US.

    However, the SRT-4 does not "beat" the WRX. Both cars transcend the other in different aspects. But I see the maker of this thread just meant straight-line performance. Like Drizze said, it's the 2.4L engine with more bottom-end torque, the FWD, and the SRT-4 being lighter. When my 03 SRT-4 was stock, I put on atleast 3 cars on my buddies stock 03 WRX from a 40 mph roll. From a dig, it was the obvious; He took me from the dig but I caught up.

    They're both excellent cars. I cannot wait for that friend with the 03 WRX to put on his TXS Carbon-Ti Stealth-back he got for X-mas. WRX's sound sooooo badass with exhaust. Lucky boxer engines. I want one! Lol.

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