OK guys, need some back up on this
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This is a discussion on OK guys, need some back up on this within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Ok let me start out by saying this is no bash on the car at all. I like the MSP ...

  1. #1
    Registered User Sharky NRK's Avatar
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    OK guys, need some back up on this

    Ok let me start out by saying this is no bash on the car at all. I like the MSP and think they are a nice package but I can not stand ignorance like this and would like your help and opinions in letting this person (a friend of mine that believes this) know that there is alot more to tuning a car effectively than this. So without futher delay here

    The internals can take a good bit of abuse with PROPER tuning. I'm not sure I can speak for everyone but the fastest MSP I've seen was running low 13's on the stock turbo. He was running 22psi and used only a FCD, MBC, and custom exhaust. He owns a dyno and measured 283hp the crank. It came out to about 265whp. With a different turbo/intercooler set up 12's are very possible. It's not a drag racer. The suspension is not set up for it. The chassis would have to be re-worked to make it into a more capable drag racer. However, a "slightly" modded MSP will hold it's own against the best in the world on a slalom. I believe it's best kill was a porsche 911 turbo. The MSP will out-slalom it and several other high dollar sports cars.
    This is what someone of MSP forums posted. And this was my first reaction to this:

    1. At 22 psi a T25 is putting out far more heat than air and is way outside of its efficiency range.
    2. You can not run 22 psi with just a FCD and MBC on almost any turbo car and expect it to live.
    3. With the MSPs small intercooler, a tiny turbo at 22 psi, and stock fuel, this thing would have pinged itself to death a long time ago.
    4. Did I mention no tuning.
    5. While I am not sure of the exact specs, I doubt the MSP has large enough injectors and fuel pump to support 265 whp or above, and I know it can't on stock everything except boost controller, exhaust, and FCD.
    6. While it hasn't been tested, these things are not known to be overbuilt in the motor department, can the internals even support that power (hell no, not on this setup).
    7. Breaking into 12s in a full interior FWD car is not a three mod job for almost any car.
    8. If this guy owns a dyno he should know better than this.

    Like I said this is no flame against the car, I really do like it, but ignorance and blatant spewing of nonsense makes me angry . Please let me know you guys opinions and what not
    I claim no responsibility for unintentional offense.

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    Moderator Integra96's Avatar
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    Uh yeah, all that sounds pretty phony. Someone please make my day and tell me that a lightly modded MazdaSpeed can run 12's, push 22psi, and thrown down 265whp! I'll go buy one right now and save the $5,000.
    "Did you sleep well?"
    "No, I made a couple of mistakes."
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    Registered User capt'n'caveman's Avatar
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    based on his numbers, his "magical" car is capable of anything

    i mean look, 283hp@crank & 265whp? only a 6.4% loss in the drivetrain, that's magical

    leave him in his delusional world, not worth a headache over
    k&n, sti-hoodscoop, engine mounts, & tranny mount, blitz dtt, catless up-pipe, samco ic hose, greddy CC, cusco f/r swaybars, gutted midpipe, oil cooler, prodrive exhaust & f/r replica sti strut tower bar, gunmetal rota tarmac, goodridge ss lines, p'n'p exhaust manifold

    deny the fly-by

  5. #4
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    Originally posted by capt'n'caveman
    based on his numbers, his "magical" car is capable of anything

    i mean look, 283hp@crank & 265whp? only a 6.4% loss in the drivetrain, that's magical
    that's exactly what I thought. He's a ricer. Ask him to provide vids/timeslips of his 'low 13's'.
    13.12@101mph
    248whp 204lb/ft torque
    mods

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    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Actually, I just traded my A4 for an MSP and I think I saw that same post.

    This is a guy who got 265whp, but I *believe* he was running 18psi on a bigger turbo and a front mount, among other things...Read the SIG for Kwiktsi

    I believe he works for, or is JoeP. of MBC.

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    yup, crap that 11 psi run is awesome cause you know that's like almost no money of mods! Considering it just also happens to be like the most godly fwd car that c&D or motortrend or someone put in the same handling test (well the MP3)as the ferrari and all...
    '03 white rex

  8. #7
    Registered User Sharky NRK's Avatar
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    Now the 11 psi run I can believe, but the above numbers (the ones I was quoted) are still crap
    I claim no responsibility for unintentional offense.

  9. #8
    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Easy to say you own a dyno, quite another to build a facility and own one.
    And which does he have? He has flywheel and wheel numbers from his magical dyno.
    ?

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    IMHO the MSP is not that special of a car, just like the new Lancer Rallisport. People can make stuff up all day but I prefer deeds not words. With those kind of numbers he should be able to kill any Stage 3 WRX....hmmm... Slalom? Yeah, the 911 is really good at the slalom, as is the Viper when properly driven (held a record for 2 or 3 years). I've never seen a FWD vehicle school all in the slalom.

  11. #10
    Registered User PlatinumWRX's Avatar
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    A Garrett T25 running at 22psi.

    Gimme a break.

    -Jim

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    Registered User artistgonebad's Avatar
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    Just my $0.02 worth...I know a fair amount about FI Miatas and as I'm fairly certain the MSP and the Miata share the same block - - I doubt his figures.

    Flyin Miata is running a 2.0 litre at 15 lbs of boost in their open track challenge Miata. This is a highly, highly, modified engine with virtually all the internals custom made (including the crank & rods). The is an endurance racing engine (read: realiable) and is putting out somewhere around 350 RWHP.

    It's been the experience of Miata owners who have been installing turbo's/Superchargers on their 1.8's (the 2.0 litre block is essentially a stroked & bored 1.8) that 15 lbs of boost will doom the engine to a very short life. And even this only gets them to about 270 RWHP. Rise above 15 lbs of boost and it's guaranteed bent rods, etc. I seriously doubt that Mazda has thrown Titanium rods, etc. into the MSP that would enable it to handle over 15 lbs of boost.

    Flyin Miata is experiementing with the Protege but so far they've only worked on the MP5, not the MSP. The MPS is just a turbo MP5 if memory serves and FM can only get the MP5 to reliably hold 6.5 lbs of boost - above that it's knocking itself to death (these guys aren't shade-tree mechanics, when they have a problem, it's a real problem). FWIW, at 6.5 lbs of boost it's barely cracking 170/hp.
    Last edited by artistgonebad; 12-11-2003 at 08:17 AM.

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    Moderator Integra96's Avatar
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    Thanks for the good info.
    "Did you sleep well?"
    "No, I made a couple of mistakes."
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    The Protege 5 and the mazdaspeed share the exact same engine/internals, the only dif is a turbo kit and ecu programing.

    here is a link from car and driver:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

    The bottem of the first page has info on the turbo


    (edit) my mistake gave the wrong link
    Last edited by Mike1100; 12-11-2003 at 09:56 AM.

  15. #14
    Registered User Griswold's Avatar
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    Originally posted by artistgonebad
    Just my $0.02 worth...I know a fair amount about FI Miatas and as I'm fairly certain the MSP and the Miata share the same block - - I doubt his figures.

    Flyin Miata is running a 2.0 litre at 15 lbs of boost in their open track challenge Miata. This is a highly, highly, modified engine with virtually all the internals custom made (including the crank & rods). The is an endurance racing engine (read: realiable) and is putting out somewhere around 350 RWHP.

    It's been the experience of Miata owners who have been installing turbo's/Superchargers on their 1.8's (the 2.0 litre block is essentially a stroked & bored 1.8) that 15 lbs of boost will doom the engine to a very short life. And even this only gets them to about 270 RWHP. Rise above 15 lbs of boost and it's guaranteed bent rods, etc. I seriously doubt that Mazda has thrown Titanium rods, etc. into the MSP that would enable it to handle over 15 lbs of boost.

    Flyin Miata is experiementing with the Protege but so far they've only worked on the MP5, not the MSP. The MPS is just a turbo MP5 if memory serves and FM can only get the MP5 to reliably hold 6.5 lbs of boost - above that it's knocking itself to death (these guys aren't shade-tree mechanics, when they have a problem, it's a real problem). FWIW, at 6.5 lbs of boost it's barely cracking 170/hp.
    Actually, i don't believe they're the same block... Could be wrong, though.

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    here is a quote from c&d website.

    "Callaway adapted a Garrett T25 ball-bearing turbo with an integral waste gate for the project, developing a unique turbine housing for this application. To keep costs down, Callaway sorted through the Mazda parts bin and borrowed an air-to-air intercooler employed in a European turbo-diesel Protegé, as well as a higher-capacity radiator. A revised Visteon engine-management program increases fuel flow. By limiting boost to a maximum of 6.9 psi, Callaway and Mazda were able to avoid making changes to the engine's internals, although a new catalytic converter was required."

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