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This is a discussion on Mustang people waving the BS Flag within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; It is a very interesting thread. Seems like us rexers are making marks all over the 1/4 tracks. I didn't ...

  1. #76
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    It is a very interesting thread. Seems like us rexers are making marks all over the 1/4 tracks. I didn't know they called us crappy sue's
    What mods, dude this baby is stock
    2002 Platinum Silver 5spd sedan.
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  3. #77
    Registered User pace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Toddzilla
    The issue is this. Drive what you want. The WRX is a great car, as is the Mustang IMO. Can't we all just get along?
    Well, you kinda missed the purpose of the thread. The Mustang guys were originally ridiculing the claims of WRX owners and specifically that stock for stock it is a good match for late model GTs.

    The 'bench racers' claims are backed up by real quarter mile results: A stock WRX absolutely will give a stock GT a very close run. A few simple (cheap) mods put both cars into the 13s.

    -Pace
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  4. #78
    Registered User elohdaeh78's Avatar
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    i just find it hard to believe that a 88-92 mustang can run 13s with 225 hp with the weight of that car not sure what it is im guessing 3200 or so. When my supra with 230hp weighing 3400 can only run a 15.0 at best w/3.90s. Thats a whole second only 200 pounds weight difference and the supra has more hp of course less torque but a whole second? If your mustang can run a high 13 stock then im sure my supra could run a low 14 stock but that will never happen. And if the old late 80s mustangs were running high 13s stock then its pretty pathetic that the new ones aren't even breaking into the 13s stock with the technology and extra hp. I mean i have been to the track every friday night for the past few months. I have seen many new mustangs and only a few are running faster then 14s, except the cobras. One even runs a 15.0 consistant i mean he is there every week and he can drive it he just can't get better then a 15.0. There is one running 13.8 but he has slicks and exhaust on it, not sure what else but at least that from what i can see. It just seems really unrelealistic to me to see a mustang running 13s a late 80s early 90s. But then again i have seen quite a few wrx's race at the track 3 stock ones that ran 14.5-14.9-15.0 and one modded my brothers with the visnu stage zero kit running a 14.0 so i guess maybe the track i race at is a "slow" track but its almost at sea level oh well.
    2005 WRX (Short throw shifter, lightweight pulley,STI Splitters,Tein H-Tech springs,Up/Down Pipe, ERZ Catback, Cobb Stage 2, ASA JH8 with Yokohama ES 100s) 13.680@100.46mph
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  5. #79
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    elohdaeh78, let me see if I can address your concerns and clear things up a little. I'll start with the 5.0s from '87-'93.

    Not all of these are capable of breaking into the 13s. But like with everything else, you have to take statitics into consideration. And by that I mean likelihood and probability.

    Some 5.0s have a better probability of breaking the 14.0 "barrier" than others. And some have never even broken the 15.0 "barrier".

    Here are the factors that affect this probability:

    • Year. The quickest 5.0s were the early '87 models before the air intake silencer was implemented. Sometime in '87 the silencer was added and cost a couple HP. In '89, mass air was added costing a little more. There were a couple changes to the cam profile over the years. Also, airbags were added in '90 or so, which added weight. So a '87 has a better chance of runing 13s than a '88, which has a better chance than a '89, etc...
    • Body style. This affects weight and aerodynamics. The "notchbacks" are best, followed by the LX hatch, followed by the GT hatch, followed by the LX convertible, and the GT convertible is worst.
    • Transmission. You're likely to get better ETs with a 5-speed than with an automatic. Quite a bit better ETs actually.
    • Rear gears. Available in 2.73:1 ratio or 3.08:1 ratio. For the quarter mile, you're likely to get better times with 3.08s.
    • Options. Obviously, the fewer options you select, the lighter (and in some case, less drag on the engine) the car will be.


    Having said all that, a early '87 LX "notchback" with 3.08 rear gears, 5-speed and as little options as possible will have a better chance of running better than 14.0 than a '93 GT convertible with 2.73s, AOD and fully loaded. In this example the '87 will be much lighter than the '93.

    I had a '88 GT wtih 5-speed, 2.73 gears and fully loaded. My chances of running better than 14.0 were 0 for all practical purposes as far as I'm concerned. I've never seen nor heard of a 5.0 GT running 14.0 bones stock. But I have with 5.0 LX notchbacks and hatchbacks.

    These cars had 225 hp at 4200 rpm and 300 foot-pound of torque at 3200 rpm. That's a lot of torque, which gets them into the powerband quickly. That's how they can run good ETs. But they're not easy to drive. The key is the launch. And during the launch, there's a fine line between wheel spin and bogging it down. So most guys are kind of "gun shy" when it comes to launching. They tend to take a more "conservative" approach. As a result, their ETs aren't that great.

    Now the '99 and up GTs have 260hp and somewhere around 300 foot-pounds of torque. These cars have a much better chance of running better than 14.0 than any non-Cobra 5.0. Quite a few people have done it on a regular basis.
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  6. #80
    Registered User Toddzilla's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pace


    Well, you kinda missed the purpose of the thread. The Mustang guys were originally ridiculing the claims of WRX owners and specifically that stock for stock it is a good match for late model GTs.

    The 'bench racers' claims are backed up by real quarter mile results: A stock WRX absolutely will give a stock GT a very close run. A few simple (cheap) mods put both cars into the 13s.

    -Pace
    I read the other thread, I realize what's going on. It started out as you said, but then the lines got blurred and it turned into a WRX vs. Mustang "which one is better" type thread. Hence my statement.
    2002 WRX - stock

    1995 Mustang Cobra - not stock
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  7. #81
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    ok i guess i understand that an 87 5 speed could run in the 13s stock but in my lifetime i am more likely to get struck by lightening then see that. Since the 87s are now 15 years old i doubt there are any stock ones running 13s anymore. Probably very few stock 87 5.0 lx's around anyway. Oh well there is always a chance of seeing one, i just see alot of exaggerated numbers here. I mean if you go to the drags you get to see what the cars really run, and 95 percent of the time the cars running slower numbers then in the mags, due to the weather, the driver etc etc, maybe the track i race at gets slow numbers i don't know, but i rarely see a stock car of any kind hit the numbers you see in the mags. maybe its bad traction who knows i ran a 13.9@103mph you would think i would be running mid 13s with that but nope. The average stock 87-93 mustang that races at the track i go to runs low 15s, sure they are old now and the drivers aren't professionals but thats the truth of it. Even the new ones are running mid 14s. I guess as fast as your car is you have to give or take 5/10ths of a second for a good to bad driver. I mean my brother ran a 14.0 with his stage zero kit in his wrx and thats supposed to be good for a 13.1, but then again the stock wrx's i have seen have run 14.5-14.9-15.0 so those are 4-9/10ths of a second slower then the mag numbers, maybe it is the track so maybe i should take my car to a better track and run me a mid 13 lol

    Nick
    2005 WRX (Short throw shifter, lightweight pulley,STI Splitters,Tein H-Tech springs,Up/Down Pipe, ERZ Catback, Cobb Stage 2, ASA JH8 with Yokohama ES 100s) 13.680@100.46mph
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  8. #82
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    Originally posted by elohdaeh78
    I mean if you go to the drags you get to see what the cars really run, and 95 percent of the time the cars running slower numbers then in the mags, due to the weather, the driver etc etc,
    Back in the days when the 5.0 was king and when I was really active in the 5.0 hobby, 99% of the drivers were getting better times than the magazines. Especially the whine & cheese mags like Road and Driver Trend. I don't think the magazine drivers are trying to squeeze every last hundredth of a second out of a car like the owners do.

    At one time, there was a club called the Gateway 5.0 Mustang Club, which I was a member and wrote the newletter for and built and administered their web site. It was the largest 5.0 club in the country, starting out in the St. Louis area and attracting members from all over the country and even from other countries. It was a performance-oriented club (as opposed to the more common show-car-oriented type), and I've been to my share of Ford-only and Mustang-only track events. I regularly attended and raced at Gateway Internation Raceway near E. St. Louis, Mid-America Raceway in Wentzville, MO, and Memphis Motorsports Park.

    If somebody in a 5.0, even if it was an automatic or convertible, wasn't running 14s, there'd be a ton of guys helping him by giving him pointers and/or checking out his car to figure out what was wrong with it. For stockers, consistent mid-14s and below was the norm if the car was a 5-speed and hardtop. If anybody ran a high 14 or worse, it was because he either missed a shift, had a really crappy launch, red-lighted during an elimination round and gave up, or was so far ahead of his opponent in an elimination round he lifted to make sure not to break out.

    Now, I don't see any stock 5.0s at the strip. The only stock Mustangs I see are the new ones.

    ok i guess i understand that an 87 5 speed could run in the 13s stock but in my lifetime i am more likely to get struck by lightening then see that.
    I think it's be rare just to see an '87 at the strip that was still stock.
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  9. #83
    Registered User ticrab's Avatar
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    I posted a little something there on that Mustang forum. It's on me. I wasn't speaking and I am not speaking for anybody else but me. Call me whatever you want. I don't care. I'm happy with what I have.

    On a different topic... lyonsd, is that a "confederate" flag on that avatar?......
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  10. #84
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    Originally posted by ticrab
    On a different topic... lyonsd, is that a "confederate" flag on that avatar?......
    It's the old Georgia state flag, and the "X" is the Confederate Battle Flag. Pretty cool, huh?
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  11. #85
    Registered User SobeWRX's Avatar
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    i recon that there is a right pertty flag!
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  12. #86
    Registered User SobeWRX's Avatar
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    i used to have a 93 rx7 that ran mid-low 13's. I raced alot of 5.0's Some of which appeared to be pretty well modified, and was NEVER anywhere close to getting beat. Granted most of this was street racing and not 1/4 mile. In my experience i never saw a stock 5.0 run in the 13's
    I'm not saying they can't, just that i have never seen it, and think that it would be very rare.
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  13. #87
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    as an old timer who grew up driving muscle cars..my first 3 cars were a 67 SS 327 camaro, 69 RS/SS 350, 72 SS 396 and also having owned 2 porsches, rx-7's, TTZ ect I just love all forms of fast transporatation. I find these comparisons and trash talking amusing. When it comes to street acceleration contests I use the same adage I used to use for fighting. "never judge the fight by the size of the dog." I would never have thought i would see the day that little 4 cylinder fwd hondas would be running 8's at over 170mph in the 1/4..that was a ridiculously laughable concept once upon a short time ago.

    So all you guys in big v8 street machines out there, it really pays to know your competition. I honestly fear no car whatever in a 0-60 run in my WRX. yes, it "only" runs consistent 4.5sec to 60 but guess what..most muscle car owners and viper and porsche owners ect have no idea and lose because they either dont take a little 4 door subie serioulsy and launch half assed and then cant make up the difference until after 60-80mph or they are not good drag racers and lose because of their ability. Hell, I ran a new porsche turbo two days ago...yes a 130K$ turbo! he didnt get by me until 70mph..why? because he sucked as a driver, he should have killed me from the getgo.. moral: never underestimate your competition...and, all's fair in acceleration contests.
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  14. #88
    Registered User SobeWRX's Avatar
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    very true, the man behind the wheel makes all the difference.
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  15. #89
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    Some of them are not car guys and have very little knowledge about other potentially very fast cars out there. They know about all the common ones like M3, M5, S4, Posche 911 T, Boxser S, NSX, Z06 etc. They don't know much about the mod scene, so they sometimes underestimate the small import car next to them until it is 2 late

    At least for me, I need to know all the cars out there, which one I can race against and which one will absolutely dust me. Btw I saw a yellow Z06 and of course I have no chance in hell to beat him. It is one mofo fast car
    What mods, dude this baby is stock
    2002 Platinum Silver 5spd sedan.
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  16. #90
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    Yo

    I replied to your email yesterday ... sorry but I don't have any pateince when it comes to new toys.
    2004 STI White/Gold
    251whp & 263ft/lbs ( Stock ): 0-60 = 4.8 ( Fastest = 4.1 ) & 1/4 = ?
    276whp & 290ft/lbs ( DP ): 0-60 = 4.5 & 1/4 = 12.9 @ 105mph
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