Re: Yo

**chuglobal** · 05-09-2002 06:32 AM

Yeah if our cars are close enough then it's up the drivers. If one makes a mistake then it's all over especially if the cars are very competitive. I found that out w/ the 2002 M3 ... he'd be gone if I messed up my lauch while we kept w/ each other up to 70+mph if both had a good start.

Racing other powerful cars for fun it a definite thrill as long as it's friendly.

**lyonsd** · 05-09-2002 06:46 AM

Originally posted by chuglobal
Try me ... . I'll race anyone anytime in the dry, rain, dirt, mud, snow, ice, etc ... as some already know. You don't have a real car unless you can run it in ALL conditions. Running a car in a controlled environment ... dry, straight line, no turns, etc is NOT a race ... that's the lazy way. Taking out spare tires, tools, back seats, 1 gallon of gas, etc. is also cheap.

The thing is that a lot of people street race. I street race, too (although I don't initiate it). Street racing is dangerous, yet we do it anyway. However, I only street race when there's no traffic ahead, no intersections, etc... So if I'm going to street race, I do so only when the danger is minimal.

Some people say "only fools race on the street". There's some truth to that, but there's a valid counter-argument too, which I touched on above: street racing in certain conditions to minimize the danger. And especially the danger present to others - not the racers themselves.

But street racing in adverse conditions? No way. I try to avoid even driving in bad weather; I sure as hell am not so foolish to attempt to street race in it.

dry, straight line, no turns, etc is NOT a race

You're absolutely correct. It's an acceleration contest. And that's what I'm talking about. If want want to change the topic from acceleration to how you can beat a Mustang in bad weather, mud, etc..., who cares?

During the ice storm a few months back I drove to work ... beauty of AWD . I saw Mustangs, Cameros, etc ... going 20mph on 285E ... I was still doing 60mph in a 55mph ... I slowed down and looked over ... they were in too much of a panic to look back at me. I would have gone w/ them. It would have been a short race since I'd be going and them spinning in circles.

I have a 4x4 Suburban for ice storms. And I try avoid even taking it out when the weather is bad.

**chuglobal** · 05-09-2002 06:53 AM

You right about street racing ... but I drive on "street racing" conditions way more than a track ... since track is way too far for me to drive and costs $$$. Don't even go there w/ SUV ... I saw SUVs doing circles on 285 driving to work that morning ... it's was fun to see them look at me wondering why I can go in a straight line.

I still can't figure out why people buy SUVs unless they actually go to the out boundaries ... hell I get a off road car to go OFF road ... over boulders, through rivers, etc.
The acceleration point was that many people choose only to "race" in "suitable" conditions. However daily driving comprises of more that just 60F w/ bright sun. I bright environment issue because it DOES matter. A car should be able to handle ALL driving coniditions NOT just a few.

**bedabi** · 05-09-2002 07:05 AM

Originally posted by lyonsd
It's an acceleration contest. And that's what I'm talking about.

Clearly, that's why you have your cars and we have ours.

**lyonsd** · 05-09-2002 07:13 AM

Originally posted by chuglobal
You right about street racing ... but I drive on "street racing" conditions way more than a track ... since track is way too far for me to drive and costs $$$. Don't even go there w/ SUV ... I saw SUVs doing circles on 285 driving to work that morning ... it's was fun to see them look at me wondering why I can go in a straight line.

Just because it's an SUV doesn't mean it's good for adverse conditions. Many SUVs are not 4x4. Some are nothing more than a luxury station wagon on a truck platform. The "S" in "SUV" is a misnomer.

And then there's the driver factor. People who have lived in warm climates all their lives aren't accustomed to snow and ice. I came from "up north" and feel quite at home when other people are in a panic and rush to Wal-Mart to "stock up". Heck, I didn't even get the Suburban until a few months ago. "Up north", I took my Mustang everywhere. On more than one occasion in the Mustang I was behind a snow plow and fuming because he wouldn't get out of the way.

I still can't figure out why people buy SUVs unless they actually go to the out boundaries ... hell I get a off road car to go OFF road ... over boulders, through rivers, etc.

Get married and have kids. Then you'll find out why people get SUVs. And contrary to what a lot of SUV-haters think, status has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

The acceleration point was that many people choose only to "race" in "suitable" conditions. However daily driving comprises of more that just 60F w/ bright sun. I bright environment issue because it DOES matter. A car should be able to handle ALL driving coniditions NOT just a few.

More importantly, the driver should be able to handle ALL driving coniditions NOT just a few.

But as I said before, this is about the acceleration of the vehicle. Not driving skills. Not off-road capability. Nothing else. Look at the "kill stories" section in every car-related site on the WWW. It's about street racing for the most part. And street racing is about the acceleration of the cars involved - which one is quicker.

This debate started because of the acceleration capabilites of the Mustang and the WRX. And to test acceleration, you need to eliminate as many of the other factors as possible; that's why we limit the discussion to dry, controlled environment on a straight line.

I'll concede that a WRX is a much better car than a Mustang for rallying, driving in adverse conditions, and other things. But we're not talking about those things - we're talking about acceleration.

**bedabi** · 05-09-2002 07:22 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bedabi
Again, let me reiterate, you may keep your car on the 1/4 mile track and feel confident that your car(s) are faster than mine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by lyonsd
Personally I could care less.

Originally posted by lyonsd
I'll concede that a WRX is a much better car than a Mustang for rallying, driving in adverse conditions, and other things. But we're not talking about those things - we're talking about acceleration.

See, I knew you did care.

**chuglobal** · 05-09-2002 07:22 AM

I go aganist any Mustang NOT on the juice since anyone on the juice will usually win ... welll until their engine goes.

I count acceleration from a "street race" stand point NOT on the track because track is NOT practical. Actually I wouldn't mind going against a 2002 Cobra or something similar ... so if any local is reading this give me a ring ... we can setup something friendly as usual ... always nice to meet new people.
I wouldn't drive a SUV or large tall car if I got one for FREE. It's call a wagon or a little larger mid size car ... NO trucks, vans, SUVs, etc. W/ the way I drive around corners, I'd flit EVERY tall/big car ... just as the people who know me.

**lyonsd** · 05-09-2002 07:26 AM

Originally posted by bedabi

Clearly, that's why you have your cars and we have ours.

But not in every case. I'm sure there are a lot or WRX guys who are more interested in street racing (acceleration) than anything else.

I bought my Mustang brand new back in 1988 because it was the fastest thing you could get at the time. As you know, the last year for the GN was 1987. I didn't get my GN until 1997.

But back to the Mustang, acceleration was the primary factor. I was young and out of the military. It's pretty normal for somebody like me to want a "fast" car. Here it is, 14 years later and we're still arguing about whose car is "faster". I guess it's a "guy" thing because the mindset hasn't changed much. Today, kids like me 14 years ago are getting cars and modifying them to go faster. Unfortunately, too many of them are doing it to cars like Civics, Celicas, Escorts, Focuses, etc...

But every one of us who has a performance car, whether it's a drag racer, rally car, exotic, Corvette, Supra or whatever, want to win in the stoplight Grand Prix.

When you're at a red light and that other cars pulls up beside you, how well it performs in an autocross, or rally course, or Road Atlanta, etc... doesn't amount to a hill of beans. When the light goes green, all that matters at that point in time is horsepower to weight ratio and getting it planted to the pavement (well, that and whether or not there are any cops around).

Originally posted by bedabi
See, I knew you did care.

If we lined up, I'd care. But we'll never line up, so I don't care.

**chuglobal** · 05-09-2002 07:29 AM

True ... unless the stop light leads to the beginning of the DRAGON or any twisty roads

.

**The Enemy** · 05-09-2002 07:34 AM

Originally posted by lyonsd

When you're at a red light and that other cars pulls up beside you, how well it performs in an autocross, or rally course, or Road Atlanta, etc... doesn't amount to a hill of beans. When the light goes green, all that matters at that point in time is horsepower to weight ratio and getting it planted to the pavement (well, that and whether or not there are any cops around).

Lyonsd,

That's the exact reason for my post earlier about Mustang owners better be serious when the pull up to a light and want to race us. Our cars are geared for fast acceleration in any surface. Putting the WRX on the street when it's designed to run in low traction surfaces gives us the advantage. Our 60' times outa the hole are in the 1.8's average. That's serious, especially in stop light grand prix when not every redlights a 1/4 mile away. We all have fun doing that and it's nice to race someone and give the thumbs up at the end.

Do you run R compound tires on your GN or Mustang when you're street racing? Just curious, knowing it helps you hookup better.

**lyonsd** · 05-09-2002 07:39 AM

Originally posted by chuglobal
I go aganist any Mustang NOT on the juice since anyone on the juice will usually win ... welll until their engine goes.

I've said elsewhere that I've got 150000 miles. I started using nitrous at about 60000 miles. My engine goes, and goes, and goes...

What about Mustangs with turbos and blowers? Do you want to edit your post to say:

"I go aganist any naturally aspirated Mustang since anyone with a power-adder will usually win"

I'll let the Corralers know. There's quite a few Mustang guys in Cobb County on the Corral.

**lyonsd** · 05-09-2002 07:53 AM

Originally posted by The Enemy
Do you run R compound tires on your GN or Mustang when you're street racing? Just curious, knowing it helps you hookup better.

My Mustang has cheap street radials (BFG 275/60-15). That's all I've ever run on it. And I run them at the strip, too. Because, like Richard said, it's about practicality. If I bolt on slicks, and do a any other "track only" stuff and run great times, I'll be slower on the street.

Suppose I run a 12.3 in "track trim" and some guy I'm street racing has run 12.7 at the strip - but suppose he did it in a DSM (AWD) and is in the same "trim" on the street as the track. My 12.3 will be as worthless as **** on a boy at that point in time.

I ran my Mustang against my GN and the Mustang won. The GN had the same tires at the time - BFG 265/50-15s. But there was a group purchase recently, and the GN needed new tires. So I bought a set of Nitto drag radials for it sized 275/50-15.

In that race, I did have 100 octane gas in the tank with a 100 octane chip (more aggressive boost & timing curves) in the GN. It was a very close race, but my friend driving the GN had a bad launch. The GN kept up, but didn't reel the Mustang in.

I'm putting 50lb/hr injectors in the GN and I only have a 93 octane street chip for those injectors. So in a race between it and the Mustang now, I think the GN should get it out of the hole thanks to the Nittos, but the Mustang should reel it in.

**chuglobal** · 05-09-2002 07:54 AM

Stock w/ little mods vs. stock w/ little mods are cool. I'd like to go against a 2002 GT/Cobra stock then a 2002 GT/Cobra w/ exhaust mods. Blowers are considered pretty extreme mods for me ... I guess mods for <$1K are fine but if someone dumps $5K in mods then that's pretty serious. I guess that's like if we get a new turbo and IC but I'm not doing that. I try to be fair in races.

I hope there are some cool people in the Cobb area who wouldn't mind going. I don't wanna deal w/ some punk teens who got their ride from mommy and daddy.

**lyonsd** · 05-09-2002 08:02 AM

Richard, if you bring it to Hall County I'll be honored to race you. Or if I ever get over there to Barrett, I'll let you know.

But I'm not going to be racing for a while because I seem to be getting some of that notorious one-wheel-peel (in other words: my limited slip differential isn't limiting slip like it should).

Looks like after 150000 hard miles, it's time for an Eaton Posi.

Well, that's in the Mustang. But my "slow" car is ready willing and able if you want to run a GN. Although I'd prefer to wait until after I replace the timing chain. The stock chain has a nylon cam gear, and there's slop in the chain after a while. A Rollmaster double roller chain with steel cam gear is a planned upgrade. Hey, the car is 16 years old - what do you expect?

**chuglobal** · 05-09-2002 08:08 AM

It's all good ... actually I'll be in your neighborhood on Sat morning if everything goes as planned. I'm getting some new tires ... RE730s so I'll probably be doing a little less launches

. I need to keep tires for more than 6 months.