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This is a discussion on Ford Lightning! within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; No replacement for displacemeent is a seriously old and invalid argument. If that was the case some of those huge ...

  1. #16
    Registered User masanz1's Avatar
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    Re: V-8

    No replacement for displacemeent is a seriously old and invalid argument. If that was the case some of those huge diesels would be spanking us all the time. It's more a power to weight issue. The Lightning is 13lb per horsepower while the WRX is 13.7/HP. I never said that the WRX would win I just said it wouldn't get beat as bad as some of you are saying and posted some numbers to prove it.


    Originally posted by JTREX
    He was playing with you or just not interested. There is no replacement for displacement. Why do some people think because you pull a couple of silly manuvers in traffic on the highway that these little Subies on steriods are faster than Vettes, stangs, F-bodies and other seriously fast cars? See way to many of these posts. Personally I think the guy did not want to waste gas on you or risk wreckin in a street race with high speed sewing machine that he could eat up and spit out fer lunch.
    Last edited by masanz1; 03-25-2002 at 03:51 AM.
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  3. #17
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    Yeah, a Lightning would spank us on a role, cause its not hard to mash out in an automatic. but off a role it would be different. I was just at the track Saturday, and I witnessed a new Lightning run a 15.0!!! Now, you can go ahead and start flaming me guys, cause I know the Ford CAN run a low 13 or whatever blah blah blah, but this guy had a hard time hittin a 14 the second time!
    drive it like ya stole it

  4. #18
    Registered User JTREX's Avatar
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    Re: Re: V-8

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by masanz1
    [B]No replacement for displacemeent is a seriously old and invalid argument. If that was the case some of those huge diesels would be spanking us all the time. It's more a power to weight issue. The Lightning is 13lb per horsepower while the WRX is 13.7/HP. I never said that the WRX would win I just said it wouldn't get beat as bad as some of you are saying and posted some numbers to prove it.

    So if I somehow managed to shoehorn (could be done) a Ford 460 CobraJet w/535 hp crate engine in my Tbird you would still say it's an old and invalid argument? That would equal about 6.3lbs/hp. A friend of mine has a T/A with a 455 pushin about 400 hp, he thinks my car is cute.




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  5. #19
    Registered User masanz1's Avatar
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    Shoehorn that 460 cobrajet in that car and I'll take a little old 1200cc Hyabusa and spank it. Again as I stated b4 it a horsepower to weight thing. That damn 460 probably weighs more than the whole bike. I bet your friend really thinks it cute around the road course or up to the snow. Explain to me why the NHRA who has a 500ci limit spanks every other drag organization. Some of these orgs have over 600ci engines. Why not get out of old school of str8lining and get into 21st century? We can go back and forth on this. Ford gets 380hp out of a 5.8 liter yet Subaru gets 227 out of a 2.0. So hp to ci is better. 400 hp out of a 455 is not too impressive if you ask me. He's not even running 12's in a quarter. A buddy of mine is pushing around 650 in a Omega with a 455 and just broke 11.99 on engine.
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  6. #20
    Registered User AmSFighter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by black99gt
    I think the torque ranges in the high 300s low 400s.. I think high 300's to be honest.

    01-02 360hp/450ft/lbs...now if I can get someone to buy my darn 4runner, I'll be in one of these babies. Upper pulley, lower pulley, chip, and filter puts these suckers into the low 12's EASY w/110+ traps. THat's less than 1500 in mods. Shift kit, restalled tc, power cooler, and a few other mods...will put it into 11's. Add 50shot nitrous and slicks on top of that and you've got a formula for high 10's with less than 5000 in mods. NLOC.net is a great resource for info on these trucks. One of my coworkers gave me a ride in his and he broke the rear loose going 30mph and he's bone stock! No traction off the line though...he said the f1's get LESS stickier as time passes.

    -James-
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  7. #21
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    i love my lil subie, but i'm admitting that the ford lightening would woop up on me if i didn't have any serious mods on there. heck we'd probly have the jump on almost every car we race on the street. but i witnessed my friend get smooshed by a ford lightening and he had almost 270hp worth of stuff on his wagon. just a roundabout number of hp... but after 2nd... it was over.

    ---tellin it like it is, RaCinWRX

  8. #22
    Registered User PlatinumWRX's Avatar
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    Re: Re: V-8

    OK, This has gone on long enough! Time for me to ask some questions. Rex N Effect, what generation F-150 Lightning was it? The two are VERY DIFFERENT BEASTS.
    The 1st gen. is naturally aspirated; fast with a little bit of work and absolutely sick with a lot of work (read twin turbo). A near stock first gen will be beaten by a near stock WRX from any speed.
    There is a replacement for displacement, most us have it, it's called a well-sized turbocharger. If you don't believe me, maybe you've heard of God's 310+AWHP WRX wagon. The motor still displaces 2.0L people!

    The lastest (2nd gen) Lightning, based on the NEW restyled F-150, is supercharged, more aerodynamic and with a little work will hand a stock WRX it's ass in the 1/4 mile and beyond. I've seen three of them run at the track. I have raced them FOR REAL at the track. I beat one, but that's because he went sideways in first and second gear and had to let off the gas like three times to make it down the track in one piece. (Pickup trucks shouldn't have this much HP, it's dangerous!!)

    Masanz, I don't see how diesel engines fit into this argument at all. Diesel fuel has a MUCH lower heating value than gasoline, plus diesel have extremely low engine speeds due to the thermodynamics of high compression. One must only compare apples to apples.

    Bottom line: As I have proven at Atco Raceway, in the 2nd gen Lightning vs. the New Impreza WRX, it's a driver's race.

    BTW, Rex N Effect, it takes a lot more balls to drive a pickup truck fast in traffic than a 3080lb. sedan. Whether he was racing or not, he probably wasn't showing you all that he had.

    -Jim

    Originally posted by masanz1
    No replacement for displacemeent is a seriously old and invalid argument. If that was the case some of those huge diesels would be spanking us all the time. It's more a power to weight issue. The Lightning is 13lb per horsepower while the WRX is 13.7/HP. I never said that the WRX would win I just said it wouldn't get beat as bad as some of you are saying and posted some numbers to prove it.

  9. #23
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    Whether or not he was showing me everything, there are plenty of lightnings by where I live so I should have another opportunity to race one. BTW, I am pretty sure they are only as quick as the mustang gt even though they have a blown cobra engine basically because of their weight. I never said that I beat him, all I said is that I was able to keep up with him until i decided I did not want to kill myself or get a ticket. And it was a newer model. If I get destroyed racing one again then I will order my PE1818 at once and put an end to it. There are too many cobras and vettes driving around and the only thing better than a vette is being able to beat one. If he was toying with me then he has no balls to show me what he really has.

  10. #24
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    When Rex says
    I thought they were faster then us but this morning on the way back from the airport I pulled up next to one doing 90mph and took off for a few seconds to see if this guy would race. I had a car in front of me so I slowed and then he changed lanes behind me and took off and I followed as soon as he passed me and I easily caught up to him at 110mph.
    That means its not a question of somebodies 1/4mi times or traction but a matter of a vehicles hp, weight and gearing. The WRX wasn't designed from the factory to do top end races. If they were going from such a high speed the Lightneings poor traction in the 1/4mi wouldn't matter and the Lightning has a higher top speed and more top end pull from the factory then the WRX does. Odds are if it was a stop light to stop light race the WRX might have won but it wasn't and the only goal of this was to see if he could keep up.

  11. #25
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    Just for fun, race him in the rain or even better in the snow. hehe
    What mods, dude this baby is stock
    2002 Platinum Silver 5spd sedan.

  12. #26
    Registered User masanz1's Avatar
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    I will agree that the Lightning has more pull from a certain range say 50-90 after that depends on the gearing in the ass end. I would think the Lightning has 3.73's in the back(not sure though). I know my 5 liter had 3.73's and the best speed for it was 50-90 afterwards it would start to slow down as the RPM went higher than it optimal range. They claim top end of the lightning is 140 and top end of the WRX is 142. Not knowing the Lightning however I can't say for sure.


    Originally posted by RNN14
    When Rex says
    I thought they were faster then us but this morning on the way back from the airport I pulled up next to one doing 90mph and took off for a few seconds to see if this guy would race. I had a car in front of me so I slowed and then he changed lanes behind me and took off and I followed as soon as he passed me and I easily caught up to him at 110mph.
    That means its not a question of somebodies 1/4mi times or traction but a matter of a vehicles hp, weight and gearing. The WRX wasn't designed from the factory to do top end races. If they were going from such a high speed the Lightneings poor traction in the 1/4mi wouldn't matter and the Lightning has a higher top speed and more top end pull from the factory then the WRX does. Odds are if it was a stop light to stop light race the WRX might have won but it wasn't and the only goal of this was to see if he could keep up.
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  13. #27
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    Gearing

    I believe the 2001 Lightnings have 3.73s in the back. 2000 and earlier gen2's have 3.55s. This is from a Sport Truck article about 9 months ago.
    -Rob W

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  14. #28
    Registered User jmussetter's Avatar
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    Just raced one...

    Hey guys, you can argue all you want, but in any race, the driver's have a lot to do with it.

    I was driving back to the Bay Area from Sacramento 2 days ago and had a civic picking on me. After blowing (literally passed him within about 5 seconds @ 100+mph) by him, I had a New Lightning roll next to me and start revving... I figured he saw me kill the honda and wanted to show me something. I'm always good to go, so I said "what the hell" and we punched it from about 75mph. My lane was blocked right away so I got behind him doing about 85-90 and then kept hammerin away. This guy was hauling, and believe it or not, I was riding his bumper the whole time till about 120mph. I even had to modulate my throttle slightly to keep from getting too close to him. He picked it with me, so I know this guy was running for real. I was actually as shocked as you guys are hearing that we DO have a chance.

    BTW, when cruising at 70-80, don't drop to 4th, go to 3rd and use the remaining 1500rpm's to jump ahead, then follow with a quick upshift to 4th. This works for me.
    2002 Midnight Black WRX - EJ22 w/ VF30 and all the other stuff to go with it...

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  15. #29
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    Ok, I raced a new lightning from a stop the other day. Not sure if it was stock cause he had 3 gauges on his pillar. Anyway I only launched at about 3 to 4k cause I wasn't ready and bogged a little but the lightning just launched on me, didn't peel out at all. Right away had a car length and just started pullin slowly away. This guy definetly knew how to lauch, cause I have never had any car espicailly a truck jump on me, even w/bad starts.
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  16. #30
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    I raced a Lightnin too

    I raced an 02 Lightning on the highway..90 to 125, he couldn't pull away, but i couldn't catch him either..we were deadlocked...i'm sure around town he would have walked me, but the gearing and aerodynamics hurt the lightning above 100mph.

    dodge dakota r/t 5.9's are even worse...i walked one above 100mph with a jetta glx a few years ago...

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