12.8 WRX vs Supercharged 4.6L Mustang? - Page 2
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This is a discussion on 12.8 WRX vs Supercharged 4.6L Mustang? within the Comparison: WRX vs World forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; He's just talking poop. I doubt the race will ever happen. IF you ever see him again, he'll just say ...

  1. #16
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    He's just talking poop. I doubt the race will ever happen. IF you ever see him again, he'll just say he didn't get this done yet, it's in the shop getting this put on, blah blah. But if it does happen, whoop some ass!
    13.12@101mph
    248whp 204lb/ft torque
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  3. #17
    Registered User yosemitemtb's Avatar
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    This reminds me of back in the day when I used to cruise around with my buddy in his Dodge Challenger with a very well built 383 Magnum. Almost every night someone would start spouting about his car in the shop, or his brothers car, or his neighbors car that was way faster than John's Dodge could ever be. "where is it?" we'd ask, and every time it was some lame excuse. It's at the paint shop, he's out of town, whatever, always an excuse. Not one of these phantom cars ever made an appearance. I think your air conditioner repairman is full of hooey.

  4. #18
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    Im trying to get a race going between a guy who says hes putting 392 to the wheels (2.5 RS turboed at 5.6psi) and he says he has run 11's. Went for a spin in it and it was slow. Point is people always talk smack.

  5. #19
    Registered User StoplightWarrior's Avatar
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    True, when people find out you have a fast car, they always think its cool to mention their brother's sister's dog's uncle who has a car that could beat you. Its annoying as hell and just makes them seem stupid.
    2003 SRT-4

  6. #20
    Registered User Bilkid's Avatar
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    Oh yea?!!!!

    Well my dog's *****'s cousin's pup has a car that can beat all ya all.

    But its in the shop....getting one of the those bobblehead dog dolls put in.

    Sorry can't race today.
    Bill

    RIP REX

  7. #21
    Registered User SGOSWRX's Avatar
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    It all depends on how the Stang is setup. I ran Vortec Supercharged Mustang about 6 Months ago in my Stage 4 WRX. We went from a 1st gear roll (10mph or so). I beat him up to 110mph. My WRX was actually faster in 1st and 2nd gear. We were basically dead even after that but he couldn't reel me in.
    So don't underestimate your chances. Try to race him from a dead stop and see how long you last. I have a feeling you'll do better than you think.

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    Thanks for your thoughts on this guys. Either way I want to run this guy just to see what'll happen. He did seem to know his way around a car, i.e tech talk of timing, fuel maps, etc.

    The mods he mentioned besides the SC (12psi), Alcohol/Water injection, Walbro FP, were 4.11 rearend w/rear axle upgrade, intake, FPR, Cam, exhaust w/ hi-flow cat, computer (don't remember specifics), and that's about all I can remember.

    Other than that, he said that his Stang is a late model '96 GT that actually had the revised 1997 engine still with the stock 19lb injectors and stock bottom end.

    I have a good feeling that he actually has this car and that we'll run 'em. Wheather or not he is actually putting down the claimed 440WHP is up in the air until we do this. We exchanged tel. numbers too so I should get in touch with him soon.

    Todd


    P.S. BTW, I really hope he's over estimating his ride so I can make an impression in his Domestic world mind. I just thought it was funny how he said that he usually wouldn't give an Import a chance. Hell, he didn't even know what a WRX was (so he said).
    2002 WRBP WRX

    Old setup = BPM GT turboback, PDE up-pipe, Unichip w/custom map, cooler plugs (NGK range 7), Walbro 255LPH FP, MBC (15 PSI), and custom built turbo utilizing the 13G housing (Internals: Hitachi compressor wheel, Mitsu 15G turbine lightly clipped).

    1/4, 12.88 105.10 - 1/8, 8.09 85.96

    New set up = Now w/UTEC and STI Injectors

    1/4, ? - 1/8, ?

  9. #23
    Registered User TurnWRX's Avatar
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    Make sure you spray some grease or oil on his tires before the race.

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    well looking at the mods now he might very well be at the 440rwhp range
    I didnt realize he had a cam, and since its alcohol injection and not water injection its like hes running race gas all the time

    also his 4.11 gears(assuming they hook) with all that torque he should be able to pull you even from a stop

    a supercharger at 12psi is probably way up there

    my other friend with a GT put 420ish to the wheels with race gas and 10psi, it also ran a 12.0@116

    however the one thing I do not believe is that the injectors are stock, 19lbs come on please that only supports 304hp at 100% duty cycle
    1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am

  11. #25
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    Originally posted by Cleaner13
    well looking at the mods now he might very well be at the 440rwhp range
    I didnt realize he had a cam, and since its alcohol injection and not water injection its like hes running race gas all the time

    also his 4.11 gears(assuming they hook) with all that torque he should be able to pull you even from a stop

    a supercharger at 12psi is probably way up there

    my other friend with a GT put 420ish to the wheels with race gas and 10psi, it also ran a 12.0@116

    however the one thing I do not believe is that the injectors are stock, 19lbs come on please that only supports 304hp at 100% duty cycle
    Yeah I know what you mean about the injectors. That seems pretty far off to support that kind of power. The other part I question is the 12 psi on the stock internals?? Can a Mustang 4.6L really handle that kind of pressure? Also, he said that the Walbro is a 180LPH pump, not the 255LPH one. As far as the Alcohol injection, he said that IIRC it was an alcohol/water mix.
    2002 WRBP WRX

    Old setup = BPM GT turboback, PDE up-pipe, Unichip w/custom map, cooler plugs (NGK range 7), Walbro 255LPH FP, MBC (15 PSI), and custom built turbo utilizing the 13G housing (Internals: Hitachi compressor wheel, Mitsu 15G turbine lightly clipped).

    1/4, 12.88 105.10 - 1/8, 8.09 85.96

    New set up = Now w/UTEC and STI Injectors

    1/4, ? - 1/8, ?

  12. #26
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    boosted 4

    I realize what you are saying

    but here is from my own experience

    With the cars I deal with (TRs) we dont have a psi limit to the engine, the only thing that limits the engine in my experiences have been knock, headgaskets, or horsepower

    now let me try and explain

    knock is very obvious, this is the most damaging thing you can do to a forced induction engine, we all know what it is and why it limits engine life so I dont think I need to explain.

    Headgaskets
    this can limit boost levels in several ways, one way is knocking which is mentioned above
    another way is sometimes when you have an old gasket (or stock) it is not strong enough to support pressure levels and blows out as a precaution to save the bottom end(assuming bottom end cant take it or not in tune, I'll explain further down)


    Horsepower
    this is obviously a large factor on the engine as well, the more horsepower an engine generates the faster its life and reliability go down. Now every engine pretty much has a power limit. My engine stock is about 700rwhp. Approaching these levels stresses the block and rotating assembly, as you reach these areas you have to have a perfect tune because one degree of detonation can take your engine at this point.

    What does all this mean to the mustang guy?
    Well it is certainly plausible(sp?) that this guy can be pushing 12 psi, as explained up top( and keep in mind this is my experience) as long as there is no knock on the engine at any certain point, and he is not stressing the blocks power limit, I dont see any reason why he cant be running the 12psi. I think with a great tune on any car you could reach very high psi levels without doing damage, however this must be done carefully and with lots of race gas and experience. Take for example my car, on pump gas(93octane) I run around with about 25psi on the turbo. A guy on our boards took an almost stock GN (with $1000 into it with suspension mods and exhaust and he got it to run 11s) howd he do it? He ran 33 degrees of timing with the stock turbo at 33psi(way out of efficiency range of 21psi) he ran 116 octane and boom he was running 11s

    dont sell yourselves short with your wrxs, go out and get some race gas and get a great tune with it, you'll be very happy with the results
    Im willing to bet with about $10 in mods, race gas and me knowing how to drive(or one of you good drivers) I could probably get a WRX to the 12s or at the very least low 13s
    you really should check out the older turbo boards www.turbobuick.com www.dsmtalk.com these guys know their **** and have been doing this stuff for years and years, youd be suprised what you would learn. lots of tips and tricks that you probably havent seen before
    1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am

  13. #27
    Registered User abbo7's Avatar
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    I will agree that I dont see many WRX's running race gas (when they race or drag) or Alchy/water injection. Except for Pace I think that he ran 110 octane and gained another 50 whp with that and bigger boost!!! I really dont know what the alchohol/water injection would do on top of that. Maybe Cleaner13 could help us out since it seems like ever GN I run into is running that system.
    Sold: 2002 WRX
    w/VS0 best of 13.5 at 97.5

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  14. #28
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    Re: boosted 4

    Originally posted by Cleaner13

    dont sell yourselves short with your wrxs, go out and get some race gas and get a great tune with it, you'll be very happy with the results
    we're not. we're all happy with our results. many of our members are former DSM owners, Honda tuners, and JDM specialists. Dan (God) did have the most powerful WRX in teh states for almost a year. we're not a little lost community that has only driven WRXs as you make out. many are accomplished track, drag and autoX drivers. some own speed shops, some grew up turning wrenches and slinging OE replacements. some are total n00bs that are now installing 3 turbos a week for their friends... what did you mean by

    you really should check out the older turbo boards www.turbobuick.com www.dsmtalk.com these guys know their **** and have been doing this stuff for years and years, youd be suprised what you would learn. lots of tips and tricks that you probably havent seen before
    well, i think you should go hang out at stangnet and really get a clue on tuning b/c those guys have been tuning since 1940. they've got a lot to teach you, b/c GN's are relatively new.

    no offense, but your post wreaks of generalism, stating the obvious, and ingnorance of the mustang and the WRX.

    what exactly does:
    I dont see any reason why he cant be running the 12psi. I think with a great tune on any car you could reach very high psi levels without doing damage
    mean?

    is there a book long enough to identify all the totally unfounded assumptions that lie behind this statement? (and many others you made)

    HOW DOES YOUR ENGINE DEFY PHYSICS AND HAVE NO PSI LIMIT? i'd like to see you run 50psi!!!! please. if you detonate, or you blow your HG, is that not a direct function of high boost, or a lean condition created by too high boost?

    a "great tune?" wtf is that? don't come in here all high and mighty and feed us crap. i don't think you can run a chevette in ANY state of tune with high boost. what is high boost? on a stock N/A car, it's what, .8bar? what is it on a supra? a wrx? a DSM? what is the point of your entire post?

    please keep the gross generalizations and unhelpful BS to yourself. spare us the schooled veteren BS.

    i hope you bring something more from your GN tuning experience to this board than that post in the future.

    dR

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    Re: Re: boosted 4

    Originally posted by dark_rex
    we're not. we're all happy with our results. many of our members are former DSM owners, Honda tuners, and JDM specialists. Dan (God) did have the most powerful WRX in teh states for almost a year. we're not a little lost community that has only driven WRXs as you make out. many are accomplished track, drag and autoX drivers. some own speed shops, some grew up turning wrenches and slinging OE replacements. some are total n00bs that are now installing 3 turbos a week for their friends... what did you mean by



    well, i think you should go hang out at stangnet and really get a clue on tuning b/c those guys have been tuning since 1940. they've got a lot to teach you, b/c GN's are relatively new.

    no offense, but your post wreaks of generalism, stating the obvious, and ingnorance of the mustang and the WRX.

    what exactly does:


    mean?

    is there a book long enough to identify all the totally unfounded assumptions that lie behind this statement? (and many others you made)

    HOW DOES YOUR ENGINE DEFY PHYSICS AND HAVE NO PSI LIMIT? i'd like to see you run 50psi!!!! please. if you detonate, or you blow your HG, is that not a direct function of high boost, or a lean condition created by too high boost?

    a "great tune?" wtf is that? don't come in here all high and mighty and feed us crap. i don't think you can run a chevette in ANY state of tune with high boost. what is high boost? on a stock N/A car, it's what, .8bar? what is it on a supra? a wrx? a DSM? what is the point of your entire post?

    please keep the gross generalizations and unhelpful BS to yourself. spare us the schooled veteren BS.

    i hope you bring something more from your GN tuning experience to this board than that post in the future.

    dR





    Dude you need to calm down for one. I wasnt making any remarks on this board about lack of performance or anything like that. I am also not saying anything negative on this board, I love the car and what it offers, however all the threads I have read over I never read any of anyone using race gas or any kind of homebrew mixture. Obviously you guys arent totally happy with results if I see threads start with (can I take him?, will this be close? etc.) I was offering experience from other boards of people who have done this their whole lives, if you want to compare experience Im more then positive that the TR board has more experience then a relatively new car. I am also almost positive that more people on your board are not subaru engineers or engineers in general or retirees from other kinds of professional sports such as drag racing or autox. Im willing to bet that more people on this board are a younger crowd then that of mine, this is not to say that you dont know anything on tuning, engineering etc, however Im willing to bet most do not have that experience. Just as general public would not. Tell me why would I go to stangnet to learn about tuning when I have a forced induction car opposed to their n/a v6s and 8s and a handful of turbo 4s? If you dont think you have anything to learn from any other car message board your dead wrong. Thats very ignorant to think that your message board would know all there is on turbo cars, we share with other turbo boards as well like DSMs and such. If you have all this information super moderator then why not make a webpage with tech articles(or do you have one already) www.gnttype.org thats ours, it has ALL the information on our cars and tells you how to do anything.
    Where in my post did I call the mustang or wrx ignorant? you are the one trying to make me out to be the bad guy, all Im saying is why not try some ideas from other people that have experience with turbo cars as well. Im sure there is alot you(WRX community) could teach us as we could teach you.
    I never said my engine or any engine has no psi limit, again you are putting words in my mouth. Yes high boost does effect the lean condition on a motor and also effects the life and reliability. Maybe my problem is the fact that you have computers run everything for you controlling the boost situations and timing and such. Maybe you dont need to tune I dont know, I dont own your car, but I know that when I add a performance part on my car, I cant just turn the ignition on and crank it over and then everything is set, I need to go to a backroad and go WOT with the car for a few passes and see what my computer reads out to me.
    By the way its not unhelpful bs to people that want to learn new ways and faster tricks to different things, some people are happy with products that are at there like $500 boost controllers, I know how to make one for $10 and on top of that it spools my turbo 800rpms faster. By the way since you have so much experience and thousands of post what does your car run? Do you know how to make a homebrew octane booster? Do you know how to make an adjustable wastegate? We can, and it took $2 to make and knocked about 2 secs off our ETs can you say that about your car? This is not meant to knock you, but if you know everything and dont need to learn from other boards then why are people other then WRX owners allowed here? Everyone learns from everyone


    By the way

    abbo7 the alcohol/water injection is used to spray a fine mist into the intercooler or up pipe. This does several things, if using straight alcohol (like me) it gives a higher octane rating to the gas(theoretically running race gas all the time), it steam cleans the pistons after the spark, and it stops detonation/ knock. If you want here is a homebrew mix we had come up with. Go to a paint store and buy a 5 gallon of Xylene(117 octane) with every gallon of that mix it with 3 gallons of 93 octane and when finished top it off with 2 oz of marvel mystery oil for lubing the fuel pump and fuel lines. This is equal to 100 octane. You should theoretically be able to run about 20% more boost(assuming your entire tank was the 100 octane) this is about how much more we get from it. Alot depends on the efficiency of the turbo as well too, but this would give you a huge jump on the stang, or if you want to go all out you can by C16 its 116 octane and you can pour it straight into the tank, or one last suggestion, go to a small air port near by and buy AV gas it runs anywhere between 102-110 octane and costs about $2 a gallon

    hope this helps man and sorry for every suggestion I made about getting help from other boards
    good luck dude and just drop another message here if you have anymore questions
    1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am

  16. #30
    Registered User abbo7's Avatar
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    Too bad I am running a reflash and not a MBC or EBC, or I could up the octane and turn up the boost, although I would need a new turbo because the stock one isnt up to par, I am already running the max amount of boost you want to run on a stock turbo with a reflash about 16.5 psi. I would like to know if anyone is or has ran the alchohol injection on a WRX.
    Sold: 2002 WRX
    w/VS0 best of 13.5 at 97.5

    New: 2003 Silverado

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